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Subject: Re: is Chess a Hard NP?

Author: Mark Rawlings

Date: 08:34:21 01/21/05

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On January 21, 2005 at 04:27:23, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On January 21, 2005 at 03:50:37, Russell Reagan wrote:
>
>>On January 20, 2005 at 23:18:01, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On the other hand, is Tic-Tac-Toe exponential?
>>>Strictly speaking -- yes it is.
>>>But even the lamest computer can solve it minimax in a fraction of a second.
>>>
>>>So there can come to be some point where it no longer matters that it is
>>>exponential because the compute speed has caught up to the size of the problem
>>>and it has really become O(1).
>>>
>>>So it is not something that we can just dismiss as irrelevant.  I think this is
>>>especially the case when the input is fixed (as in the case of an adversarial
>>>game) rather than sorting or something where we might want to sort the cards in
>>>a deck, but we might also want to sort all the CTAG sequences in Chrysanthemum
>>>DNA.
>>
>>
>>Isn't O-notation used for analyzing situations where N can grow to infinity?
>>Describing 3x3 tic-tac-toe in terms of O-notation doesn't really make sense to
>>me. For 3x3 tic-tac-toe, what is N? At least for chess, N is practically
>>infinity, for now.
>
>Tic-Tac-Toe is exactly analogous to chess.
>
>I have 9 choices for my first move.
>
>My opponent has 8 choices for his move, so we have 72 possibilities so far.
>
>Obviously, the game is exponential also.  The plies are less and the choices are
>less.   But it is still exponential.  If you had to work out all the
>possibilites with pen and paper, then it wouldn't seem so trivial.
>
>The total games are less than 9! since some games finish early.  But the same
>sort of thing is true in chess.
>
>Obviously, an computer can make tic-tac-toe to be trivial.
>
>Similarly (but slightly harder) for Connect 4.
>
>Othello is solved, but it was a lot harder than Connect 4.
>
>Checkers will be solved soon, but it was a lot harder than Othello.
>
>In 10 years, Checkers will be what Tic-Tac-Toe is today.  Trivial.


Just a clarification:  Regular 8x8 Othello is not solved;  only the 6x6 version
was solved.  Based on what's going on with the 10-piece databases for checkers,
I'd say checkers will be solved long before 8x8 Othello.

Mark





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