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Subject: Re: Strange endgame play by S8

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 09:50:43 01/29/05

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On January 29, 2005 at 09:45:23, Vasik Rajlich wrote:

>On January 29, 2005 at 06:49:16, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 29, 2005 at 05:53:17, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>
>>>On January 28, 2005 at 20:05:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 28, 2005 at 11:52:25, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 28, 2005 at 06:17:49, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 28, 2005 at 04:37:59, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On January 27, 2005 at 16:37:11, Richard Harrison wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In the following position, Shredder 8 plays the blunder move 66. Qxf4??  This
>>>>>>>>move loses quickly. [After 15 minutes of thinking, still likes Qxf4]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>S7.04 does not deviate from 66. Qb2 and recognizes the draw instantly.  Ruffian
>>>>>>>>1.05 also plays Qb2 (0.00)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What does your Shredder 8 play?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>[D]8/8/8/2K5/1Q3pP1/4nP2/3pk3/8 w - - 0 66
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>White is clearly better after Qxf4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In the endgame just counting the material isn't so reliable any more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Vas
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I disagree.
>>>>>>I think that black has better winning chances.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>winning a pawn and getting drawn KN vs KP is no problem for black after Qxf4
>>>>>>and black can also try other ideas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>in human game I will try to win with black.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The white pawns are not advanced enough to make me afraid of promotion in the
>>>>>>near future and I feel sure that in the worst case I can draw by perpetual check
>>>>>>and maybe I can win the queen of the opponent after a mistake preventing the
>>>>>>opponent to force trading queens is easy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri,
>>>>>
>>>>>let me tell you a little chess story. I play in the German league for
>>>>>Hungen-Lich, a very small city. We have quite a few teams actually - some a bit
>>>>>more discinplined than other - and one of them is called the "pub" team. Every
>>>>>year, from each league, a few teams get moved up, and a few teams get kicked
>>>>>down - and as you might guess in the last match last year our pub team was
>>>>>fighting for their life to stay in the league. To stay, they had to draw their
>>>>>last match.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, you might think that anybody who calls themselves the pub team wouldn't
>>>>>give a rat's ass about getting kicked - but in this case you would think wrong.
>>>>>Let's face it - it might be fun to drink a little bit, but if you get kicked by
>>>>>some chumps it's just not so funny anymore. So, the big match is underway - and
>>>>>the pub team is behind, 4-3. It's down to the last game, they need a win to stay
>>>>>in the league, and their guy has bishop and wrong-colored rook pawn, nothing
>>>>>else.
>>>>>
>>>>>Can he pull it off?
>>>>>
>>>>>After a few swigs, the pub team guy moves up his pawn, and then brings the king
>>>>>in for the final assault. The defending king is in the corner, with fewer and
>>>>>fewer escape squares. The defender - sober, but under great pressure all game -
>>>>>the tension and the danger of great humiliation working on his mind - the empty
>>>>>bottles on the table clouding his vision - starts to panic - worries about
>>>>>getting mated, and flees into the open space. The pawn promotes, the new queen
>>>>>closes in, and the pub team keeps their spot. The guy who lost was ready to cry.
>>>>>
>>>>>SO what's the point here?
>>>>>
>>>>>If you join our pub team - and it's not clear that you have the credentials -
>>>>>and if you have the balls to get drunk for the match that might kick you from
>>>>>the league - then we can talk about how you'll win this with black.
>>>>>
>>>>>But wait - that's not the end. After the victorious match, the loser of this
>>>>>game was furious. After mulling over his humiliation, he gathered himself up and
>>>>>wrote a big letter to the German federation, and as it turns out it's illegal to
>>>>>have alcohol at the match - although it had been going on all year and nobody
>>>>>else was crying about it. So, the match was forfeited, and the pub team got
>>>>>kicked after all and even had to pay a fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>So let me know if you want to file a pub team application ...
>>>>>
>>>>>Vas
>>>>
>>>>I do not see the connection.
>>>>
>>>>KBP vs K is an easy draw when the bishop is blind and it is eady to prove it
>>>>mathematically.
>>>>
>>>>Here I am not sure that it is an easy draw and I suspect that there may happen a
>>>>position when the side with the knight may give some checks and force mate or
>>>>win the queen.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>It was just a cool story :) totally true BTW.
>>>
>>>In this position here it's a question of what white can do. Maybe it's just
>>>drawn. For example 1. Qxf4 d1/Q 2. g5 already draws to 2. .. Qd5+ & Qxf3, and if
>>>2. Qe4 then black plays 2. .. Qd8 and starts passing with his king.
>>>
>>>As for white blundering his queen - if he's worried about this, he can just keep
>>>it where the knight can't attack it with one move ;) This is a good idea if
>>>you're playing against the pub team ...
>>>
>>>Vas
>>
>>It is not enough to protect the queen from the knight.
>>1)You may save the queen but lose the king.
>>queen and knight maybe can force checkmate.
>>
>>2)The fact that the knight cannot attack the queen does not mean that the
>>friendly queen of the knight cannot capture it after some checks.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Ok, in a human game anything can happen. In comp-comp this should certainly get
>+/=. Actually I guess just 0.00 would be the most precise, but no eval can be
>that good.
>
>Vas

I disagree and I think that also computers should give a small advantage for
black.

Uri



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