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Subject: Re: KNNNNKQ (long)

Author: Mark Rawlings

Date: 16:51:36 01/31/05

Go up one level in this thread


On January 31, 2005 at 19:07:51, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On January 31, 2005 at 17:56:09, Mark Rawlings wrote:
>
>>On January 31, 2005 at 04:37:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On January 30, 2005 at 21:25:09, Mark Rawlings wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 30, 2005 at 13:28:17, Duncan Roberts wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 30, 2005 at 12:53:11, Helmut Conrady wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 30, 2005 at 10:56:55, Mark Rawlings wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Very interesting!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Is the KRNKNN mate in 262 still the longest tablebase mate??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes these 523 plies are the longest DTM so far. I expect this record holds in
>>>>>>the 6 piece endings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Helmut
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>was it always suspected, it would be the longest, or did they know only after it
>>>>>was done.
>>>>>
>>>>>do you have any thought on longest 7 piece and how long ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>duncan
>>>>
>>>>I was always thinking that the egtbs with pawns would have the longest mates,
>>>>but I guess that's not the case.
>>>
>>>I guess that you do not consider the 50 move rule.
>>>
>>>Mate in 150 moves with no pawns(6 pieces) is simply a draw if my memory is
>>>correct and the same for mate in more moves.
>>>
>>>1.***
>>>
>>>50...capture
>>>51.***
>>>100...capture
>>>you already have 4 pieces and it is a draw or mate in less than 50 moves(I am
>>>not sure what is the longest mate but if I remember correctly it is less than 50
>>>moves).
>>>
>>>I am not sure what is the longest mate for every tablebase of 4 pieces and I
>>>think to write a program to calculate it based on movei structure by having a
>>>loop on all possible 4 piece positions and probing the tablebases.
>>>
>>>Knowing the correct values for every position can help me to check if I have no
>>>bug in the program that probe tablebases.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>Right.  I was not considering the 50-move rule since the tablebases don't take
>>that into account. It's really more of a theoretical topic for me.  (I never did
>>like the 50-move rule, since it's always possible that the rule could be
>>changed.)
>>
>>Mark
>
>The rule will NEVER be changed again in FIDE, it's 50 moves and not a move more.
>
>There was a short lived experiment to make it 75 moves for specific endgames,
>but after a few years this caused so much problems that it was changed back to
>50 moves for all positions and NEVER again will get changed within FIDE.
>
>I remember 1 game Kroeze-Diepeveen which lasted 7.5 hours, for the dutch 'open'
>championships in Dieren, a few years ago. Getting to those 50 moves just took
>forever for me to draw.
>
>In fact i had 1 game against Victor Korchnoi too. Dead draw. After 7 hours of
>play i fell asleep and blundered and he still won. That should have been a 50
>move rule game too. Too bad i blew it already after 7 hours. I had at the time
>2150 as a rating so i guess he didn't like drawing me, him being a 2690+ rated
>person at that time. Note i'm FM nowadays but get little chances now against
>such big guys :)
>
>Nowadays most time controls are shorter. A 7 hour game is quite difficult to get
>now. The FIDE level now is 40 moves in 2 hours + 1 in 20 + 15 or 30 minutes all.
>
>So a game never can last longer than 6.5 or 7 hours now.
>
>That's why a month ago i had a game which took 6.5 hours nearly. Very quickly i
>managed to win KQKR there :)
>
>A year ago in KNSB i had a position which i could play on forever kind of. I had
>night + 3 pawns (f,g,h) against opponent king + rook + 1 pawn (h pawn).
>
>50 moves is really a lot there.
>
>Basically i shuffled for 30 moves.
>
>By then his clock was so low that when i exchanged myself, he had only 2 minutes
>left or so and had to move instantly. 50 moves against someone who has all time
>of the world is really a lot.
>
>He made a mistake and lost.
>
>I was real happy, i played for my team and they needed that point to win the
>match. Additional it is a big d***head at ICC who shouts around the biggest
>nonsense there, as he can keep anonymous there.
>
>With such timecontrols as we have now in tournaments and the prospect that it
>won't get slower, 50 moves really is a lot.
>
>It will never get more moves.
>
>Vincent

I agree, 50 moves otb to play out a draw would be brutal!

Mark



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