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Subject: Re: Selective vs Brute Force

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 01:01:19 01/26/99

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On January 25, 1999 at 11:36:32, Christopher R. Dorr wrote:

>Unless this 'selective search' is different from conventional definitions of
>'selective search', selective search is *most definitely* stronger than brute
>force. regardless of what the tech guy said.
>
>The reason is as follows (somewhat simplified). Brute force eveluates *every
>position* is every branch of the search tree to a certain depth, dictated by
>time constraints. Lets say that (in time control x) that the brute force mode is
>able to examine every single position arising from the current position up to
>depth 8 ply. That mean that the computer sees *every* possible position that can
>arise in the next 4 full moves, and make is decision based on what it can force
>within that search depth.
>
>The selective search mode utilizes it's time differently. It may well search the
>first (say) 4 or 5 or 6 plies completely (ala brute force), but it will
>selectively search out in certain lines much deeper (say to 10 or 12 or 14 ply).
>If the position is tactically intersting (and therefore extended), this mode may
>well find a win of a pawn on ply 6/14 (i.e. 6 ply brute force, extended to 14
>ply in certain lines).
>
>There are, of course, trade offs with each method. The selective search may miss
>a tactic in a line that it prunes off at ply 5 at ply 8 in that line that brute
>force sees. This isn't terribly likely, as selective search will follow a given
>line down further as long as it's tactically 'interesting'. Brute force's trade
>off comes because it sees *nothing* beyond a certain depth, because it has to
>spend it's time examing every position in it's given search depth, regardless of
>how ridiculous or unpromising it might be.
>
>The trade offs with brute force generally cost a program *far more* rating
>points than do the trade offs of selective search. I've owned dozens of programs
>and dedicated chess computers, and cannot remember any of them playing as well
>with brute force search as with selective search.
>
>Chris

I am coming in late, so if I say something stupid, my apologies.

A random tech guy could be living on any planet, he could be talking about
"selective search" as meaning a search you do on a machine that is so slow and
so limited that you don't even have enough power to look at every reply to every
root move.  A 3-ply pure alpha-beta search (which is what I would call brute
force) should kill this.  There is a hardware disparity assumed here, which a
random tech guy may consider as part of the whole package.

I would call a search that uses null-move forward-pruning a selective search,
although it's so easy to implement that it's almost cheating to call it this.
It's domain-independent, so you don't have to have any chess brains to do it.

A null-move selective search will kill straight alpha-beta in the general chess
domain on any computer that wouldn't more profitably be used as a boat anchor.

I have no idea how I'd implement other kinds of selective pruning techniques,
particularly domain-dependent techniques.  If anyone has done this successfully,
would you care to comment?

bruce



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