Author: Uri Blass
Date: 11:15:47 02/15/05
Go up one level in this thread
On February 15, 2005 at 14:09:53, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >On February 15, 2005 at 12:51:06, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On February 15, 2005 at 12:39:58, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On February 15, 2005 at 12:06:24, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On February 15, 2005 at 11:25:32, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 18:47:22, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 16:51:47, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 15:57:16, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 11:40:12, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 10:56:24, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 10:33:12, Jon Dart wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>A few notes from Arasan's games in CCT7: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Game 1 against Homer, Arasan had Black in a QID that Schroer called >>>>>>>>>>>"a super high-class line, very theoretical". Arasan was in book until >>>>>>>>>>>move 18. It appears Homer misplayed the next few moves. Arasan's score >>>>>>>>>>>rapidly climbed and it won. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Arasan won easily against Alarm after it blundered here with .. Bxa3: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>[D] 3q1b1k/1p4pp/rn2rp2/BR2p3/p3N3/P2PP1P1/5P1P/1QR3K1 b - - 0 1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Black is not in good shape already, but the pawn can't be taken. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Arasan lost against Fafis. The opening was some unusual variant of the >>>>>>>>>>>Four Knights .. Arasan was out of book at move 7. Arasan's score >>>>>>>>>>>was positive until move 45. I haven't analyzed this yet so I am >>>>>>>>>>>not sure where it went wrong but it lost rapidly after that. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>This game against nullmover gave me some anxious moments. 7 .. Ne8 >>>>>>>>>>>is unusual (..c6 is more common) and Arasan was out of book after >>>>>>>>>>>that. Black got what looked like a pretty scary k-side attack >>>>>>>>>>>in the KID. But Arasan defended - in fact its score was never >>>>>>>>>>>negative. Finally Arasan broke through on the q-side -- standard >>>>>>>>>>>play in the KID - and won. The nullmover author mentioned his program >>>>>>>>>>>had no passed pawn code and in general has a simple eval. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>[Event "?"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Site "chessclub.com"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Date "2005.02.13"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>>>>>[White "Arasan 9.0"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Black "nullmover"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>>>>>>>>[ECO "E87"] >>>>>>>>>>>[WhiteElo "2594"] >>>>>>>>>>>[BlackElo "2202"] >>>>>>>>>>>[TimeControl "3000+3"] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 6. Be3 e5 7. d5 Ne8 >>>>>>>>>>>8. Qd2 f5 9. exf5 gxf5 10. Bd3 Na6 11. Nge2 Nb4 12. O-O f4 13. Bf2 >>>>>>>>>>>Nxd3 14. Qxd3 Rf5 15. Ne4 Rh5 16. b4 Rh6 17. Rfe1 Rg6 18. Kh1 Nf6 >>>>>>>>>>>19. N2c3 Nxe4 20. Nxe4 Bf5 21. Rg1 Kh8 22. a4 Qe7 23. c5 dxc5 >>>>>>>>>>>24. bxc5 Rg8 25. d6 Qf7 26. Rad1 Rh6 27. Rge1 cxd6 28. cxd6 b6 >>>>>>>>>>>29. Qd5 Be6 30. Qd2 Bf8 31. Qc3 Qg7 32. g4 Rh3 33. g5 Bg4 34. Rd3 Bf5 >>>>>>>>>>>35. a5 Rh5 36. Rd5 Bxe4 37. Rxe5 Qf7 38. R5xe4+ Bg7 39. Qc6 Rxg5 >>>>>>>>>>>40. Re8 Rg6 41. axb6 axb6 42. Bxb6 Qa2 43. Rxg8+ Kxg8 44. Re8+ >>>>>>>>>>> 1-0 {nullmover resigns} >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Against Pharaon, Arasan played a reasonable variant of the Slav and >>>>>>>>>>>was ok for a long time. Finally at this point Pharaon played Bh6: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>[D] q6k/3r1p2/p4Pp1/1pRn3p/3PQ3/P6P/1P1B4/6K1 w - - 0 1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>and then posted the Bishop on g7. Neither Arasan nor Crafty would play >>>>>>>>>>>Bh6 at the tournament time level on the hardware I have, but Crafty >>>>>>>>>>>does eventually fail high on it, with a score of +1.7, so this may >>>>>>>>>>>have been the decisive move. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I wasn't watching for a while, but the next time I looked Pharaon was up >>>>>>>>>>>a Knight--not quite sure how that happened, but seems like it found a >>>>>>>>>>>nice tactic. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Pharaon was strong even before its recent version update and now it >>>>>>>>>>>is really formidable. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>In the Chompster game, 37 .. a4 by Chompster was a bad mistake, >>>>>>>>>>>gifting Arasan with an outside passer: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>[D] 2q1r1k1/5pp1/5bp1/p7/4PQ2/1Br5/P4RPP/5R1K b - - 0 1 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>But the game got into a bishop of opposite colors ending and was >>>>>>>>>>>drawn. I actually made the draw manually, which brought a protest >>>>>>>>>>>from sfarrell: he is right that under the rules this should not >>>>>>>>>>>have been done without the TD's consent. It seems several programs >>>>>>>>>>>broke this rule in this round. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I was disappointed to lose the last game against cEng (witchess). It >>>>>>>>>>>had a very unusual opening: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>[Event "?"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Site "chessclub.com"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Date "2005.02.13"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>>>>>>[White "witchess"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Black "Arasan 9.0"] >>>>>>>>>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>>>>>>>>[ECO "C28"] >>>>>>>>>>>[WhiteElo "2397"] >>>>>>>>>>>[BlackElo "2594"] >>>>>>>>>>>[TimeControl "3000+3"] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nc6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. Nxe4 d5 6. Bd3 dxe4 >>>>>>>>>>>7. Bxe4 Ne7 8. c3 f5 9. Bc2 e4 10. Ne5 Qd5 11. f4 exf3 12. Nxf3 Qe6+ >>>>>>>>>>>13. Kf2 Qb6+ 14. d4 Be6 15. Ba4+ c6 16. Re1 Bd5 17. Bb3 O-O-O 18. Bg5 >>>>>>>>>>>Qc7 19. Bxd5 cxd5 20. Qe2 Qb6 21. c4 Rd7 22. cxd5 Kb8 23. Qe5+ Ka8 >>>>>>>>>>>24. d6 Rxd6 25. Bxe7 Bxe7 26. Qxe7 Rc8 27. Kg1 Rg8 28. Rac1 Rdd8 >>>>>>>>>>> 1-0 {ArasanX resigns} >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>I analyzed this overnight with Crafty but didn't find where Arasan >>>>>>>>>>>went wrong. I didn't like 7.. Ne7 and 7.. Bd6 seems to be better - >>>>>>>>>>>this has occurred in a few games with this line. After Ne7, Arasan >>>>>>>>>>>had its Bishop locked in and failed to develop it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I watched this game live and found it a very strong game from witchess. >>>>>>>>>>Especially because it plays without book. Let's be honest there. That's 700 >>>>>>>>>>rating points (a real strong book). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>How did you get that estimate? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Do you have one tournament when a program with no book performed 700 elo worse >>>>>>>>>than the same program with book? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Well.... I love that you continue missing the importance of the opening book. It >>>>>>>>will mean more easy points for your opponents! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I have been reading your same "cantaleta" (*) for years and I have seen how >>>>>>>>Movei has been beated by books well tuned. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hopefully, you understand that in 20 years. Who knows...... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Arturo. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Movei is weak relative to the top programs also when both programs use the same >>>>>>>external book so I do not see how the results of Movei prove something about the >>>>>>>importance of book. >>>>>> >>>>>>Of course, the results doesnt prove anything because your book was a random >>>>>>thing combined with the Movei blunders caused what you know. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>You may be able to tune your book against movei's public book but if I come >>>>>>>to the tournament with new book you will not be able to plan openings that >>>>>>>moveidoes not understand. >>>>>> >>>>>>I did not tune the book against Movei.... I tune a book for a specific engine. >>>>>>Anthony accepted my help and I did my best in 2 short months. Of course, how >>>>>>could you understand that? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Note that in the last tournament I used Dan Corbit's book in rounds 1-6 and got >>>>>>>4.5 out of 6, but after movei got out of book against averno >>>>>>>with 1.d4 Nf6 c4 e5 and got negative evaluation some moves later I decided that >>>>>>>I do not like Corbit's book and replaced the book by the public book(still small >>>>>>>book but at least movei is not out of book after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5). >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>You continue missing what I have repeated you over the last 3 years. They are >>>>>>random books. They are not tuned hy hand. Anything can happen. Again, how could >>>>>>I explain you that? Three years in this forum and you repeat the same >>>>>>_cantaleta_ :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Maybe it was a mistake because Movei lost the last 3 games but I do not think >>>>>>>that part of the opponents tuned against Movei's public book(after all they >>>>>>>cannot know that I will use it and I do not think that it is so important for >>>>>>>them to win to waste many hours not only against movei's book but also against >>>>>>>book of other programs because movei has no special importance) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Uri >>>>>> >>>>>>Movei lost by itself. No for any tuned book against Movei. Zappa outsearched >>>>>>Movei in tha game and played a better game. Movei made all kind of mistakes in >>>>>>that game. It was not any book just the Movei game. >>>>> >>>>>Exactly, i saw Uri however blame the hardware of the opponent, who by the way >>>>>has lower clocked processors than Movei uses. >>>>> >>>>>Vincent >>>> >>>>hardware was one of the advantage of zappa in the meaning that >>>>zappa on movei's hardware is weaker. >>>> >>>>zappa is simply better than movei but I think that in the future I will never >>>>use the public book in these events. >>>> >>>>It is probably only bad luck but after replacing Dan Corbit's book by movei's >>>>public book before the game against zappa movei lost every game. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>So you complain about book meanwhile saying book is not important? >> >>I will not use the public book only to prevent the possibility of preperation >>against it. >> >>It does not mean that I plan to spend a lot of time of building a better book >>for movei. >> >>Uri > >Of course, dont spend that time. It will be new easy points for your opponents. > >Arturo.. Of course if I do not improve the engine it will be new easy points for the opponents. Uri
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