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Subject: Re: Most brilliant novelty from cct7 Witchess-Arasan

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 02:14:01 02/17/05

Go up one level in this thread


On February 17, 2005 at 04:41:21, Arturo Ochoa wrote:

>On February 16, 2005 at 19:26:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On February 16, 2005 at 18:52:55, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>
>>>On February 16, 2005 at 15:20:31, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 16, 2005 at 13:58:21, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 19:56:56, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On February 14, 2005 at 19:23:07, Thomas Mayer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi Arturo,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did not tune the book against Movei.... I tune a book for a specific
>>>>>>>> engine. Anthony accepted my help and I did my best in 2 short months. Of
>>>>>>>> course, how could you understand that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>we had that discussion already in several forums. Uri has his point of view
>>>>>>>(which is IMO totally wrong) and will not change that... senseless to discuss...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You might remember CCT4 -> Since then I had never again such a fantastic tuned
>>>>>>>book for Quarks needs - it was the work of Leo Dijksman which he had done in
>>>>>>>several month with thousands of games and analysis. Of course it was Quark which
>>>>>>>was playing that tourney but it had a fantastic book that lead it to positions
>>>>>>>it can play. And that is what a good book cooker should do, he should help the
>>>>>>>engine to end up in positions after the opening where it knows what it should
>>>>>>>do. The more time he can spent on that the better it will do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Vincencts 700 Elo might be a bit to high, but 300 is for sure a good number -
>>>>>>>the difference between a random book and a well tuned book. Especially the
>>>>>>>weaker or more unbalanced your engine is, the more it is important to have a
>>>>>>>perfect book.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It suggests that the engine is important because if the engine is not balanced
>>>>>>you may solve the problem by doing it balance.
>>>>>
>>>>>Every component of software is important including the book.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe for a weak engine even Vincents 700 is possible...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think that if the engine is too weak no book will help it unless you predict
>>>>>>perfectly the opoenent moves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I do not see how you can do tscp 700 elo better by a book and tscp is not the
>>>>>>weakest engine in the world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I guess that a book for weaker engines will be even less productive.
>>>>>
>>>>>How do you know that? What are you proofs? You only guess  and how can you
>>>>>support this?
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If someone want to prove me wrong he is invited to try to improve tscp rating of
>>>>>>1699 in the WBEC site to 2400(slightly better than Amateur,Betsy,Leila)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The rating should hold also against new opponents(that were still not released)
>>>>>>because when I talk about book the idea is not to have killer book that work
>>>>>>only against specific opponents with known books that is of course possible
>>>>>>after lot of work when you put win after win in the book.
>>>>>
>>>>>No, you are not so important so somebody wastes his valuable time in your absurd
>>>>>contrdictions. :) It is enough to point your nonsense here.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>What you dont tunderstand is the Vincent's sense. Because your lack of
>>>>>credibility, he just put a extreme point. You think that a no-book engine can
>>>>>wint a Title.Prove that in Tournaments.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I did not say that my engine can do it so there is nothing that I need to prove.
>>>>I never claimed that movei can win a title.
>>>>
>>>>I do not think that it can do it today and even if I will think sometimes in the
>>>>future that it can do it I plan to say nothing about it before it wins.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>On the contrary, you _dont_ have anything to prove because you cannot support
>>>your suppositions on real facts. You _deny_ what you have been repeating for
>>>years since you cannot hold your weak position.
>>
>>You simply misunderstood me.
>>I never claimed that a better book cannot help movei to score better.
>>
>
>Correction: you say a book is not important.
Yes

 You say a no-book engine is as
>strong as a book engine.

No
 You say a no-book engine can win a title.

Yes

 It has never
>happen

Yes

 and it will never happen.

We do not know
>
>>I remember that I said that book is not important but I did not mean to your
>>interpretation.
>>of course a good book may be exactly what  strong but not very strong engine
>>need to win a tournament but if the engine is very strong it has good chances to
>>win even without book.
>
>Where ae your proofs about it? I have not seen the first Tournament where it has
>happened? How you can repeat that? :) A lie repeated 1000 times can become true
>for some people.
>
>>
>2>It is possible that zappa needed exactly your book to win CCT7(I do not know)
>>but shredder9 had good chances to do it even with movei book so from my point of
>>view movei did not win the tournament because it is weaker than shredder9 and
>>not because of lack of good book(this is the way that I prefer to look at
>>things).
>>
>>Uri
>
>This is just a assumption that you have repeated for years. However, you have
>failed to prove this assumpstion. How could you explain that it is correct?
>Since you hold this position (very absurd in my opinion), you will continue
>givin easy points to your opponents. As I have told you, it is great because you
>will be beated again and again. :)

Your conclusion is wrong.
I do not say that movei will not use better book in future events.

The only correct facts are that
I do not plan to spend a significant time about building it and I do not plan to
pay to somebody who will build a better book.

Uri



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