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Subject: Re: The Stats just don't add up......

Author: Bryan Hofmann

Date: 16:16:48 02/23/05

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On February 23, 2005 at 07:35:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On February 22, 2005 at 21:47:06, Bryan Hofmann wrote:
>
>>On February 21, 2005 at 23:45:20, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On February 21, 2005 at 21:08:05, Bryan Hofmann wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 20, 2005 at 19:56:51, Peter Skinner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 20, 2005 at 14:48:24, mike schoonover wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>hi all,
>>>>>>been noticing this problem for a while with crafty.
>>>>>>exits in ics mode quite freaquently.
>>>>>>more with the newer ones.
>>>>>>see:http://wbforum.volker-pittlik.name/viewtopic.php?t=1680
>>>>>>it is not compile pessific.
>>>>>>just wondering,is this a crafty or wb problem.
>>>>>>help appreciated.
>>>>>>regards
>>>>>>mike
>>>>>
>>>>>I read your post on the wb forums, and the replies by Bryan Hoffman.
>>>>>
>>>>>I decided to test his version vs mine on the same computer, as I haven't done it
>>>>>in a while.  Here are the results:
>>>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>unable to open book file [./book.bin].
>>>>>book is disabled
>>>>>unable to open book file [./books.bin].
>>>>>hash table memory =   24M bytes.
>>>>>pawn hash table memory =    6M bytes.
>>>>>
>>>>>Crafty v19.19 BH
>>>>>
>>>>>White(1): bench
>>>>>Running benchmark. . .
>>>>>......
>>>>>Total nodes: 89729038
>>>>>Raw nodes per second: 766914
>>>>>Total elapsed time: 117
>>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 5.470085
>>>>>White(1):
>>>>>
>>>>>EPD Kit revision date: 1996.04.21
>>>>>unable to open book file [./book.bin].
>>>>>book is disabled
>>>>>unable to open book file [./books.bin].
>>>>>hash table memory =   24M bytes.
>>>>>pawn hash table memory =    6M bytes.
>>>>>
>>>>>Crafty v19.19 (1 cpus)
>>>>>
>>>>>White(1): bench
>>>>>Running benchmark. . .
>>>>>......
>>>>>Total nodes: 89729038
>>>>>Raw nodes per second: 787096
>>>>>Total elapsed time: 114
>>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 5.614035
>>>>>White(1):
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>Mine still seems slightly faster, and is the default compile with VC++ 2005
>>>>>Express.
>>>>>
>>>>>Using these options:
>>>>>
>>>>>cl /Ox /O2 /GL /Gs /GA /GF /GT /Gr /MT /w /DNT_i386 /DWIN32 /D_CONSOLE /DWINDOWS
>>>>>/DFAST /DEGTB6 /DEPD /DFUTILITY /DVC_INLINE_ASM crafty.obj egtb.obj
>>>>>
>>>>>Peter
>>>>
>>>>I find this hard to believe as I just ran your compile vs my compile on two
>>>>different systems and Intel Pentium 4 2.8 GHz and a AMD 3000+ XP system. I'm
>>>>using the full VC 2005 with POGO. The largest difference is in the AMD and I
>>>>sure this is due to the POGO is being done on the AMD system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>AMD 3000+ XP
>>>>
>>>>Skinners
>>>>Crafty v19.19
>>>>
>>>>White(1): ben
>>>>Running benchmark. . .
>>>>......
>>>>Total nodes: 96761642
>>>>Raw nodes per second: 1256644
>>>>Total elapsed time: 77
>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 8.311688
>>>>White(1): quit
>>>>
>>>>Crafty v19.19 BH
>>>>
>>>>White(1): ben
>>>>Running benchmark. . .
>>>>......
>>>>Total nodes: 96761642
>>>>Raw nodes per second: 1362840
>>>>Total elapsed time: 71
>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 9.014085
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Pentium 4 2.8GHz
>>>>
>>>>Skinners
>>>>EPD Kit revision date: 1996.04.21
>>>>unable to open book file [./book.bin].
>>>>book is disabled
>>>>unable to open book file [./books.bin]
>>>>
>>>>Crafty v19.19
>>>>
>>>>White(1): ben
>>>>Running benchmark. . .
>>>>......
>>>>Total nodes: 96761642
>>>>Raw nodes per second: 1018543
>>>>Total elapsed time: 95
>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 6.736842
>>>>White(1): quit
>>>>
>>>>Mine
>>>>unable to open book file [./book.bin].
>>>>book is disabled
>>>>unable to open book file [./books.bin]
>>>>
>>>>Crafty v19.19 BH
>>>>
>>>>White(1): ben
>>>>Running benchmark. . .
>>>>......
>>>>Total nodes: 96761642
>>>>Raw nodes per second: 1063314
>>>>Total elapsed time: 91
>>>>SMP time-to-ply measurement: 7.032967
>>>>White(1):
>>>
>>>
>>>Hate to tell you guys, but you are all pissin' in the wind.  :)
>>
>>Doubtful but you are allowed to have your view.
>>>
>>>optimizations change from one processor to another, and I am not just talking
>>>about AMD vs Intel.  Different memory timing, different cache size/timing,
>>>different memory latency, different processor timings, the list goes on and on,
>>>and each can affect the speed of the program sporadically and unpredictably.
>>>Even poor memory/cache aliasing can make the same executable vary in speed
>>>significantly from one day to the next on the same processor.
>>>
>>>Benchmarking and optimizing is not a "compile one time, run one test, and look
>>>at the results".  It is a "compile once, run a bunch of tests, then clear memory
>>>and run the same thing again.  Multiple times...  Whether you average or use the
>>>best/worst/typical result is up to you, but there are too many variables for one
>>>person to compile and think "this is the best there is".  There are even
>>>compiler and optimizer differences to contend with beyond hardware difference...
>>
>>This is exactly what I have done time and time again with my compiles. I take it
>>a step futher in that I have forced inlined some functions to attain a quicker
>>compile and tested and both Intel and AMD platforms and had others test the
>>compiles. All have pointed to one thing, the compiles I produce are faster then
>>any of the others out there on a windows platform.
>
>You can only make that claim for the specific machines you have tested on.  That
>was my point.  If you haven't seen the memory/cache aliasing problem show up,
>you have just been lucky.  It is there...

I have had assistance from the testers in the AEGT (On the Winboard Forum) help
me out with several different Platforms of AMD and Intel chips. I know better
then to make empty claims about anything on the forum and do fully test as much
as possible prior to stating anything here. You are right, I have been lucky and
not run into the memory/cache issue.


Bryan



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