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Subject: Re: Microcomputers vs. Grandmasters

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:02:46 01/29/99

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On January 29, 1999 at 20:21:44, Matt Frank wrote:

>>The Deep Blue machine had 256 Chess CPU's.  By the term "Chess CPU", that means
>>the native instructions were things like "Nxb4"
>>These CPU's calculated 256,000,000 NPS.  About a factor of 1000 faster than the
>>best available current systems, give or take a factor of 4 (depending on your
>>budget and the kind of searching you do).
>
>I have no question about the speed of Deep Blue, or the research budget.
>
>>The Budget for the Deep Blue project must have been orders of magnitude greater
>>than any resouces available to the best equipped PC programming team.  People
>>have an image of IBM as some stodgy old guys standing around in black suits, but
>>you had better believe that they have some of the best research and development
>>teams in the world.  Just do a web search for "IBM fellows" and you will find
>>some pretty impressive names.
>
>The resources that were given to the Deep Blue project were considerable, yet
>that doesn't necessarily translate into a added value over software makers
>dedicated to their craft. Surely I don't have to provide a list of software
>wizards that destabalized markets and terrorized companies many times larger.
>Reputation lasts as long as it works in this field. Don't let resource
>allocation and reputation cloud your perception. The leap forward in playing
>strength by the IBM team is almost totally attributed to faster processing. I do
>not underestimate the work Mr. Benjamin and the programmers, yet I am telling
>you that the top flight software competitors are in a lot better shape in terms
>of producing strong programs with what they have to work with compared to IBM.
>
>Furthermore, how is this for a challenge: Give me a Pentium 2 450MHZ with 256
>ram using Hiarcs 7, and I will play  Deep Blue as configured for it's win
>against Kasparov in 1997, with these time limits::: Deep Blue 5 minutes for the
>game, me 40/2hrs 20/1hr. That is only 24 to 1 time advantage. That should
>indicate that Deep Blue does not have nearly as big of an advbantage over the
>present programs. Indeed it would indicate that the programs are much more
>efficient using their native hardware compared to the IBM program. After all
>even 24 times the present speed of a 450 MHZ Pentium still leaves you behind the
>speed of Deep Blue.
>
>I think you don't know where the micros are now because the GMs are hiding.
>Anand said to a reporter after his match with Rebel 10, "No more, with
>computers."
>
>Matt Frank


think realistically.  The DB guys have more experience than any commercial
programmer by a _wide_ margin.  Murray Campbell was working on computer chess
in the 1970's...  for example...  Don't underestimate their skills when
comparing them to commercial programs...  they are _not_ behind at all, quite
the contrary.

and no micro has come close to beating a kasparov in tournament play with a
million dollar prize on the line.  Nor can one come close today.  I don't think
they could beat any GM in a match at 40/2hr at present, although they would
likely win some games...  and this _particularly_ evident when the GM is
'computer savvy' and knows how to 'play the machine' which is becoming more
common...



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