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Subject: Re: Changing Score at Horizon, after finishing Q-Search? Alpha/Beta Values?

Author: Johannes

Date: 03:57:15 04/07/05

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On April 06, 2005 at 11:40:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On April 06, 2005 at 07:37:55, Johannes wrote:
>
>>Hello!
>>Right now im working on a new Version of my Chess Engine and an idea has come to
>>my mind, but i dont know if its applicable:
>>When I'm in Q-Search i only want to deal with material values. I handle theses
>>incrementally, so theres is no need for any function call except the Q-search
>>recursion.
>>After returning from Q-Search (at the full-width horizon) i simply add the
>>positional eval score to the score returned from Q-search. This score is
>>returned "up the tree".
>>For the positions before the horizon this should be no problem concerning
>>alpha/beta values etc... . Also positions beyond the horizon should not suffer
>>from this, as long as the alpha/beta values were not passed to a Node before the
>>horizon before. If they were, the alpha/beta bounds would not be correct,
>>because they include positional scores which are not considered beyond the
>>horizon.
>>So my idea is to simply substract the local positional score from the alpha/beta
>>values (as long as they are not -INF or +INF) at the full-width horizon, before
>>entering Q-Search. I assume that this would result in correct cutoffs.
>>Is this idea correct?
>>I didnt find any drawbacks yet, but i only have a vague intuition about it.
>>I really would appreciate if anybody could help me with this.
>>greets
>>johannes
>
>
>You can "cheat the system" however you want.  In this case, you are positionally
>evaluating the board, and then making captures that could greatly change that
>positional evaluation, but you won't realize it.
>
>For example, a capture that shreds the king-side pawn structure will not be
>scored correctly since you won't realize that the king-side is destroyed,
>because you use the positional evaluation before the capture is made and just
>factor in material only after that point.  Ditto for endgame ideas such as a
>pawn running after all pieces are exchanged.  If you evaluate the position
>before the exchanges, the pawn can't run, if you then make the exchanges and
>think all is ok, you will lose.
>
>It is a dangerous road...

Hi there!
Thanks for the quick responses. Of course your right about the problems with
missing information in the Q-Search. The background to my idea is the following:
Q-Search was always intended to be a safety measure to prevent unstable board
positions from being evaluated. Therefore I'm trying to put as less effort
(CPU-Time) as possible in it, e.g. dealing with material scores only safes time
here.
This increases my full-width horizon. I think this the tradeoff im facing here.
The Q-Search is bad informed, but in my opinion it should safe me from the
Horizon Effect in the first place.
The problemes you mentioned are really the only ones i can think of. There are
positions where the win/loss of one piece can greatly influence the static
positional score. In this positions the score returned from full-width horizon
wont be correct, because a capture beyond the horizon would have this influence
(although the capture is already considered in the material term).
Im going into a bit more experimenting on this idea, because i think it would be
nice to find a way to perform the Q-Search as cheap as possible. I dont want to
be informed by Q-Search, i just want the safety of a stable material score.
greets
johannes




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