Author: John Merlino
Date: 11:23:10 04/17/05
Go up one level in this thread
On April 17, 2005 at 06:44:26, Martin Baumung wrote:
>On April 16, 2005 at 18:38:59, John Merlino wrote:
>
>>On April 16, 2005 at 18:16:22, F. Huber wrote:
>>
>>>On April 16, 2005 at 17:28:27, John Merlino wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 16, 2005 at 17:15:21, F. Huber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 16, 2005 at 16:24:31, John Merlino wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Just for fun, I made a few tiny adjustments to the position, and came up with
>>>>>>this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[D]8/8/pp1p4/6p1/2ppK1Pk/3P3P/5PP1/8 w - - 0 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>After playing around with several lines, I'm guessing that this is a Mate for
>>>>>>White in no less than 20 moves. The King can't find it easily unless I push all
>>>>>>the way past White's 8th move, and then it says Mate in 14.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>White has to spend a lot more time in this position ensuring that he wins the
>>>>>>pawn race AND avoids stalemate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What does your awesome machine say? How about ChestUCI, Franz?
>>>>>
>>>>>"awesome"? My old Celeron/400? LOL!
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, I´ve tried it now (#22) with almost the same parameters as for the
>>>>>original #13, but had no luck yet. :-(
>>>>>
>>>>>This seems to be a lot harder, and maybe the restriction K=1 (i.e. black king
>>>>>can´t move at all) won´t hold any longer for _this_ position.
>>>>
>>>>You're correct, it will no longer hold. To avoid stalemate, White will have to
>>>>play g3+, allowing Kxh3 and Kxg4. Eventually, there will only be 5-6 men on the
>>>>board, so tablebases might help.
>>>
>>>Stalemate??? Do you want to say that in your solution mate has to capture
>>>almost all black pawns, even the ones an a/b-line?
>>>Then your way of solution must really be completely different than the one
>>>for the original #13, and I´ve absolutely no idea how it might look like.
>>>OTOH if the black king captures h3/g4-pawns, how should he be mated then -
>>>at least in ´only´ 22 moves?
>>>
>>>Would be interesting to see your solution ...
>>>
>>>Franz.
>>
>>Indeed, by my playing around, it appears that all Black pawns except for the
>>g-pawn will definitely be captured. White's d-pawn will queen, and White's h3
>>and g4 pawns will be captured.
>>
>>Here's what I believe to be best play:
>>
>>[Event ""]
>>[Site ""]
>>[Date "2005.4.16"]
>>[Round ""]
>>[White "Merlin"]
>>[Black "Merlin"]
>>[TimeControl "-"]
>>[Result "*"]
>>[Setup "1"]
>>[FEN "8/8/pp1p4/6p1/2ppK1Pk/3P3P/5PP1/8 w - - 0 1"]
>>
>>1.dxc4 a5 2.Kxd4 a4 3.Kc3 d5 4.cxd5 b5 5.d6 b4+ 6.Kxb4 a3 7.g3+ Kxh3
>>8.Kxa3 Kxg4 {and now White has a Mate in at most 12 moves with 9.d7, resulting
>>in a total mate sequence of at most 20 moves -- slightly better than my initial
>>estimate}
>>
>>The other main option for White is:
>>
>>6.Kb2 a3+ 7.Kb3 a2 8.Kxa2 b3+ 9.Kb1 b2 {and now 10.f3, 10.f4 or 10.g3+ are
>>required, and all lead to slower mates than the line above -- The King reports
>>that 10.f3 is a Mate in 14, for a total length of at most 23 moves}
>>
>>jm
>
>
>Hi John,
>
>it looks like it's a mate in 19 - maybe even less.
>
>After 1.dxc4 a5 ChestUCI finds a mate in 18 within a reasonable amount of time
>using the parameters P=3 and X=8 (IIRC). It would take too long from the very
>beginning though...
>
>Martin
That's great, Martin. Because any reply by Black other than 1...a5 results in a
Mate in 12 or less. So we can safely say that the position is no more than a
Mate in 19.
Many thanks! I wonder who will be the first to report an engine finding it from
the initial position....?
jm
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