Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: A Blast from the past - Feng Hsu

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 09:17:13 04/18/05

Go up one level in this thread


On April 17, 2005 at 10:33:57, chandler yergin wrote:

>On April 16, 2005 at 07:49:08, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>
>>On April 15, 2005 at 20:51:07, Mike Byrne wrote:
>>
>>>Five years ago , Hsu's open letter to the world regarding a possible rematch
>>>with Deep Blue.
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/feng.html
>>
>>
>>
>>Mike, the whole topic is uninteresting. The point Hsu didn't get five years ago
>>and earlier in 1997, is the fact that he and his team (IBM involved this way or
>>another) cheated on Kasparov during the process of the whole rematch in 1997.
>>For me it's so basic that they offended their own (pretended or not) defined as
>>science experiment. They wanted to show the class of DBII in its chess over the
>>then best human chessplayer. But what they proved in effect was not the
>>machine's superiority in chess but their success over Kasparov's psyche with
>>classical tricks from psycho-wars. Kasparov will never agree with this
>>interpretation because "complete control" is his obsession and he couldn't live
>>with the truth that they "psyched" him "out". So he worked with the absurd claim
>>that they did never prove their authentic output of the machine. But make no
>>mistake, Kasparov wasn't responsible during that match - for NOT being
>>vulnerable what psychology is concerned. Because he simply believed Hsu et al in
>>advance that they - even if they wanted to win - wouldn't cheat him, what they
>>did as a matter of fact.
>>
>>Hsu et al (plus IBM of course) cheated
>>
>>a) on Kasparov as their human client for the experiment which alone is indecent
>>
>>b) on their own science responsibility for the experiment, which didn't mean
>>winning by all means but winning through the better chess
>>
>>c) on their own interests, because they made all further experiments obsolete
>>with their participation, because everyone would know by now that they would
>>cheat on you with all tricks they could organize.
>>
>>d) on the silent contract for purposes of the massmedia: in 1997 it was clear
>>that from a chess point even the strong machine DB II still wasn't able to play
>>chess so that such a strong player as Kasparov normally could have been beaten.
>>That was only possible with tricks which led to the development that Kasparov
>>was psyched out or worse, that Kasparov was confused about the real strength of
>>the machine.
>
>
>All of the resources available were used to specifically beat ONE Player,
>Kasparov!  Feng-Hsu made specific Chip modifications.. GM Joel Benjamin
>'tweaked' the Program after every game, changed the Opening Book, all
>for Deep Blue to beat Kasparov. They knew that Kasparov used the Commercial
>Programs during his analysis.. and thought Deep Blue used the Commercial
>Opening Books. He was Naive.. didn't realize how he was being 'sandbagged'!
>So there was human intervention. I call that cheating!
>

In that light, _all_ computer vs human games will have cheating in them.  Why?
Last time I looked, _every_ program was developed by a human programmer (or team
of human programmers).  Of course, I suppose it is perfectly OK for the human
players to have assistants to do opening preparation for them?

this is a red-herring that is way off the mark of sanity...




>
>>
>>That is not my personal opinion but the verdict of several commentators out of
>>the GM scene. People who can read the game and its problems. In Germany at first
>>GM Unzicker criticised the match for its chess content and later GM Hübner
>>showed where Kasparov played out of fear. So that scientifically, I conclude,
>>the whole event didn't prove anything about the 1997 strength of a chess machine
>>in a meaning of superiority over human race. Its chess simply was too bad. With
>>the exception of the game two, where God's hand might have come into play... or
>>human interventions.
>>
>>Hsu's and DB II's main defender here in CCC and usenet, Prof. Hyatt, did always
>>point out that this was a match about winning. And this way it was in accordance
>>with all what makes American sports and spirit for fight so lovable. Bob always
>>explained that this wasn't about science, alone because of the leadership of IBM
>>that mainly had commercial interests. But we in the World of chess we do know
>>what we read and saw in the massmedia and we defend our hero Kasparov, about
>>whom we did well know that he was easily to irritate by suspicious details. That
>>was the only weakness he had. But therefore winning against him by such
>>hokuspokus disturbances did NOT decide who was the stronger chessplayer, since
>>all the pychotricks didn't come from DB II but from the ingenious team around
>>Feng Hsu. And therefore it's over for Hsu. He should challenge FRITZ, SHREDDER
>>or DEEP JUNIOR! But no more human chessplayers. Period.



This page took 0.09 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.