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Subject: Re: The truth about chess programs

Author: Tony Nichols

Date: 01:53:33 04/22/05

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On April 22, 2005 at 04:46:40, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On April 22, 2005 at 03:39:06, Tony Nichols wrote:
>
>> I know I might make some people mad by what I say but someone should say it.
>>Today's chess programs are not nearly as strong as the top human players. All
>>this hype about Hydra being 3000 elo is a joke. In fact, All the elo claims for
>>computers are a joke. We have seen many examples of class players drawing
>>against these programs. These same players would have no chance of drawing even
>>an average GM(no disrespect). These high level man vs machine matches are just
>>promotional gimmicks. The top players won't play anti-computer chess for many
>>reasons:
>>1. ego. The players want to beat the computer with normal(manly) chess. They
>>also don't want their achievement to be devalued.
>>2. money. If you show the weaknesses of the program and systematically beat it
>>you certainly will not get invited to another match.
>>I find it strange that people who approach computer vs. computer tournaments in
>>a very scientific way are the same people who scoff at posts made by players who
>>regularly draw against the top programs. Perhaps this information upsets their
>>fantasy? I don't know.
>>I for one am an avid user of chess programs and I find them invaluable. However,
>>even I (1850 elo)have to guide the programs along the right paths during
>>analysis. Could you imagine me telling Kasparov that he's missing the point! No.
>>The programs perform as well as they do because they are very good at tactics
>>and most importantly they have huge opening books. I know this is a
>>controversial topic but if we really want to test the strenght of programs, then
>>have them play against strong humans without opening books. Many here would not
>>even consider it.
>>I am interested in what others have to say!?
>>Regards
>>Tony
>
>I basicly agree with you, there are positions beyond the comprehention of todays
>programs. If you can find a weakness and exploit it repeatedly then by all means
>do so, the prog deserves to lose the rating! :)
>
>But aside from this rather obvious fact, I think chess programmers care mostly
>about finding the "objectively" best move in any given position.
>
>This is part of the problem perhaps, because one of the basic assumptions in the
>search algortithm is that the opponent will always respond with the strongest
>possible move!
>When you play against weaker players this assumption is no longer entirely true!
>In fact you should often play a bit crazy just to avoid those drawishly even
>positions.
>Humans know that but I think most programs aren't designed that way.
>
>So while I agree that humans could do more to develop anti-computer strategies,
>programmers could also do more to develop anti-human strategies. :)
>
>It just seems no one really cares that much about these 2100 players trying
>again and again to draw by a blocked pawn position.
>Most programmers just don't see it as a big enough annoyance, having the engine
>play differently depending on the opponent is a in fact a much bigger annoyance.
>
>Anyway, there are certainly more interesting things to work on in a chess engine
>:)
>
>-S.
Hi, Sune
Thanks for your input. I don't quite understand your comment. "having the engine
play differently depending on the opponent is in fact a much bigger annoyance."?
Regards
Tony



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