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Subject: Re: The truth about chess programs

Author: chandler yergin

Date: 03:16:51 04/22/05

Go up one level in this thread


On April 22, 2005 at 06:07:37, Tony Nichols wrote:

>On April 22, 2005 at 05:44:20, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On April 22, 2005 at 03:39:06, Tony Nichols wrote:
>>
>>> I know I might make some people mad by what I say but someone should say it.
>>>Today's chess programs are not nearly as strong as the top human players.
>>
>>
>>I do not agree.
>>
>>
>> All
>>>this hype about Hydra being 3000 elo is a joke.
>>
>>
>>Humans are not 3000 elo but I agree that Hydra is probably weaker than 3000.
>>
>> In fact, All the elo claims for
>>>computers are a joke. We have seen many examples of class players drawing
>>>against these programs. These same players would have no chance of drawing even
>>>an average GM(no disrespect).
>>
>>I disagree.
>>
>>I believe that if players with rating near 2000 play enough games against GM
>>they will draw or win games.
>>
>>People can play many games against computers when they cannot do the same
>>against GM's.
>>
>>I also know about cases when a player with rating under 2000 beated a GM and I
>>know of another case when a player with rating of near 2100 beated a GM.
>>
>>
>> These high level man vs machine matches are just
>>>promotional gimmicks. The top players won't play anti-computer chess for many
>>>reasons:
>>>1. ego. The players want to beat the computer with normal(manly) chess. They
>>>also don't want their achievement to be devalued.
>>>2. money. If you show the weaknesses of the program and systematically beat it
>>>you certainly will not get invited to another match.
>>>I find it strange that people who approach computer vs. computer tournaments in
>>>a very scientific way are the same people who scoff at posts made by players who
>>>regularly draw against the top programs. Perhaps this information upsets their
>>>fantasy? I don't know.
>>>I for one am an avid user of chess programs and I find them invaluable. However,
>>>even I (1850 elo)have to guide the programs along the right paths during
>>>analysis. Could you imagine me telling Kasparov that he's missing the point! No.
>>>The programs perform as well as they do because they are very good at tactics
>>>and most importantly they have huge opening books. I know this is a
>>>controversial topic but if we really want to test the strenght of programs, then
>>>have them play against strong humans without opening books. Many here would not
>>>even consider it.
>>
>>Of course because humans use opening book.
>>
>>If you want to be fair with no opening book then give them to play a different
>>opening position when both sides do not know the position before the game so
>>they cannot prepare theory knowledge.
>>
>>Uri

  Exellent idea Uri!
I too have thought that the next 'level' perhaps of some Tournaments
might start from a Tabia, where Theory leaves off, and real thinking begins.

It's not really intersting for me to watch a Match where the Top Players
are using their Openings 20 moves deep etc..

It would be more fun watching Basketball too, if the basket was raised 3 ft,
and make these guys really earn their $$$$.
;)
Chan


>Hi, Uri
>Some humans use opening books. Some humans write them. A very few create real
>theory. No human uses opening books during the game. As far as 2000 players
>beating GMs. I don't think this would happen in a match as opposed to a tourney.
>Many times GMs take risks to score more points.
>Regards
>Tony



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