Author: chandler yergin
Date: 11:36:40 04/22/05
Go up one level in this thread
On April 22, 2005 at 12:32:15, Terry McCracken wrote: >On April 22, 2005 at 12:16:52, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On April 22, 2005 at 12:01:09, Mihaly Szalai wrote: >> >>>On April 22, 2005 at 09:29:13, Andrey Popov wrote: >>> >>>>This is the last position of the last game of Kasparov-Karpov match. >>>>If Karpov (Black) reaches a draw, he wins the match. >>>>Of course, White has a huge advantage. >>>>However, I do not see any way to win. >>>>5n1k/5Q2/4p1p1/2q1P2p/7P/6P1/5PK1/3B4 b - - 0 64 >>>>[D]5n1k/5Q2/4p1p1/2q1P2p/7P/6P1/5PK1/3B4 b - - 0 64 >>>>Why did Karpov resigned? >>>>Can anybody see a series of White's moves leading to win after Qc5-b4? >>>>Engines quickly go to score about +3.00 and stick on it forever. >>> >>>According to Kasparov this is the winning line: >>> >>>64... Qb4 65. Bf3 Qc5 66. Be4 Qb4 67. f3 Qd2+ 68. Kh3 Qh6 (68... Qb4 69. Bxg6 >>>Nxg6 70. Qxg6 Qxh4+ 71. Kg2) 69. f4 Qg7 70. Qxg7+ Kxg7 71. Bc6+- >>> >>>and we can agree with him: >>> >>>71... Kf7 72. Kg2 Ke7 73. Kf3 Nh7 (73... Kd8 74. Ke4 Kc7 75. Be8 Kd8 76. Ba4 Kc7 >>>77. Kd4) 74. Ke4 Nf8 75. Kd4 Kd8 (75... Nh7 76. Kc5 Nf8 77. Bb5 Nh7 78. Kc6 Nf8 >>>79. Bd3) 76. Kc5 Kc7 77. Be4 etc. >> >> >>Neither of you took the line to Mate! >> >>The +- & etc.. is not convincing! >> >>What engine can 'demonstrate' a Mate? >> >>The PV evals are static positional values, and meaningless unless a Mate >>is found. > >What you wrote is meaningless....Chan think before you type. > >First you don't know whether a computer was even employed, and even if it was, >it's not important to show checkmate, which is some distance away. This was posted by Uri: "I could probe clearly higher score than +3 by yace after Qc5-b4" [Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "New game"] [Black "?"] [Result "*"] [SetUp "1"] [FEN "5n1k/5Q2/4p1p1/2q1P2p/7P/6P1/5PK1/3B4 b - - 0 1"] [PlyCount "16"] 1... Qb4 2. Bc2 Qc5 3. Kh3 Qxc2 (3... Qb4 4. f4) 4. Qxf8+ Kh7 5. Qf7+ Kh8 (5... Kh6 6. Qxe6 Qxf2 (6... Qb1 7. Kh2 Kg7 8. Qf6+) 7. Qf6 Qxf6 8. exf6) 6. Qxe6 Qxf2 (6... Qe4 7. Qf6+) 7. Qf6+ Qxf6 8. exf6 Kg8 9. g4 * A computer was used to evaluate the FEN position. My comment: "The PV evals are static positional values, and meaningless unless a Mate is found." If the engine cannot find a Mate; what good is the eval? Showing a Plus or a +- is misleading, if a win is beyond the capability of the analysis module. You need more moves to take it a proper ending. There are many positions where a +- is shown, or even as much as a +(2.00) and the position is still a Draw. > > >And if it were all computer, to state and I quote, "The PV evals are static >positional values, and meaningless unless a Mate is found." Isn't correct >regardless. This is true: The PV evals are static positional values, unless a forcing line is found and that will be reflected in the PV, usually going to Mate.
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