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Subject: Re: Which is better?

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 13:23:39 04/24/05

Go up one level in this thread


On April 24, 2005 at 15:05:41, John Merlino wrote:

>On April 24, 2005 at 14:31:52, Jack Lad wrote:
>
>>[d] 6nr/p2rkp1n/1pQRq1pp/1N2P3/8/4BN1P/PPP2PP1/2K4R w
>>
>>1.Nc7 or Nfd4?
>>
>>Or can they both mate in the same number of moves?
>
>Playing through the lines, it appears that:
>
>1.Nc7 is a Mate in 9.
>
>1.Nfd4 is a Mate in 11.
>
>jm

Your "Playing through the lines,..." raised an alarm bell in my mind, so I
decided to feed this to Ruffian. First I fed it it the position after 1.Nc7 and
got this after 10 minutes on my 1.3Ghz Centrino:

Ruffian 1.0.1  UCI 13 MB:
D1  00:00  9.15   Rxd6 exd6 Qxd6
D2  00:00  M1  Rxd6 Qe8
D2  00:00  9.94   Qf5 Nd5 Ke8
D3  00:00  12.46   Qf5 Nd5 Kf8 Rxd7
D4  00:00  15.43   Qf5 g4 Qxc2 Qxc2 Rxd6 exd6 Kxd6
D4  00:00  14.21   Rxc7 Qxc7 Kf8 Rxe6 fxe6 Qxa7
D5  00:00  14.79   Rxc7 Rxe6 fxe6 Qxc7 Kf8 Qc8 Ke7 Bxh6
D6  00:00  15.42   Rxc7 Rxe6 fxe6 Qxc7 Kf8 Qb8 Kf7 Qxa7 Ne7 Bxh6
D6  00:00  14.72   Nf8 Nxe6 fxe6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Qd6 Kd8 Qxe6 Ne7
D7  00:00  15.89   Nf8 Nxe6 fxe6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Rd1 Nxe5 Qc7 Nd7 Rxd7 Kf6
D7  00:00  15.40   Rxc7 Rxe6 fxe6 Qxc7 Kf8 Qb8 Kf7 Qxa7 Ne7 Bxh6 Nf8
D8  00:01  19.14   Rxc7 Rxe6 Kf8 Re8 Kg7 Qxc7 Ng5 Nxg5 hxg5 Bxg5 Nh6
D8  00:02  18.00   Nf8 Nxe6 fxe6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Rd1 Kf7 Rxd7 Ne7 Rxa7 Rc8 Qxb6
D9+  00:03  18.35   Nf8
D9  00:09  22.01   Nf8 Rhd1 Rh7 Nxe6 Nxe6 Qxd7 Kf8 Rxe6 fxe6 Qxh7 g5 Qxa7
D9  00:10  19.99   Rxc7 Rxe6 Kf8 Re8 Kg7 Qxc7 Ng5 Nxg5 hxg5 Qxa7 b5 Bxg5
D9  00:19  19.05   Qf5 g4 Qxc2 Kxc2 Rxc7 Qxc7 Kf8 Qxa7 Kg7 Qxb6 Ne7
D10+  00:20  19.40   Qf5
D10  00:39  M10  Qf5 Nd4 Nhf6 Nxf5 gxf5 Rxd7 Nxd7 Qd6 Kd8 Rd1 Ngf6 exf6 Kc8 Qxd7
Kb7 Qd5 Kxc7 Bf4 Kc8 Qd7
D10  00:54  25.83   Nf8 Rhd1 Rh7 Nxe6 Nxe6 Qc8 Rxd6 exd6 Kf6 Qc3 Nd4 Qxd4 Ke6 d7
Kf5 d8Q
D10  00:58  21.75   Rxc7 Rxe6 Kf8 Re8 Kg7 Qxc7 Ng5 Bd4 Ne6 Rxe6 b5 Rd6 b4 Qxa7
D11+  01:06  22.10   Rxc7
D11  01:12  23.05   Rxc7 Rxe6 fxe6 Qxc7 Kf8 Rd1 Ne7 Qd8 Kf7 Qxh8 b5 Qxh7 Ke8 Qh8
Kf7 Bxh6 b4
D12+  01:22  23.40   Rxc7
D12  01:38  M10  Rxc7 Rxe6 Kf8 Qd6 Re7 Rxe7 g5 Rxf7 Kxf7 e6 Kg6 Ne5 Kg7 Qd7 Kf6
Ng4 Kf5 e7 Kg6 e8Q
D12  03:41  24.59   Nf8 Nxe6 fxe6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Rd1 Kf7 Bxh6 g5 Rxd7 Ne7 Nxg5 Kg6
Qxe6 Kh5 g4 Kh4 Rxe7 Rxh6 Qxh6
D13+  03:58  24.94   Nf8
D13  09:29  25.22   Nf8 Nxe6 fxe6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Rd1 Kf7 Bxh6 g5 Rxd7 Ne7 Nxg5 Kg6
Qxe6 Kh5 g4 Kh4 Rxe7 Rf8 Bxf8 Kxg5 Rxa7
D14+  10:33  25.57   Nf8

Note that it acquired a mate score a few times only to lose again. Ultimately, a
mate was not found. This doesn't prove there isn't a shorter mate, but it does
suggest, I think, that "Playing through the lines,..." is a dubious thing to do.

I cleared the hash tables and then fed it the position after 1.Rxe6 and after
only 2 minutes I got this:

Ruffian 1.0.1  UCI 13 MB:
D1  00:00  12.40   Nd6
D2  00:00  11.95   Nd6 Kd8
D3  00:00  12.85   Nd6 Ng5 Bxg5 hxg5 Nxg5
D4  00:00  12.47   Nd6 Rd8 Rd1 Kf8
D5  00:00  12.82   Nd6 Rd8 Nc8 Kf7 Nxa7 Ne7 Qxb6
D6  00:00  12.87   Nd6 Nf8 Rd1 Rh7 Qc8 Rg7
D7  00:00  13.68   Nd6 Rd8 Nc8 Kf8 Qxe6 Re8 Qd6 Kg7 Nxa7
D8  00:00  14.63   Nd6 Nf8 Qa8 Rd8 Qxa7 Nd7 Bxb6 Rb8 Bc7 Rf8
D9+  00:01  14.98   Nd6
D9  00:02  15.23   Nd6 Nf8 Qa8 Rd8 Qxa7 Rd7 Qxb6 Nh7 Qc6 Kd8 Rd1
D10+  00:04  15.58   Nd6
D10  00:04  15.65   Nd6 Nf8 Qc4 g5 Nd4 Rxd6 exd6 Kf7 d7 Ke7 Qb4 Kxd7 Qxf8 a6
D10  00:10  19.22   Rd1 Nf8 Ng5 hxg5 Bxg5 Kf7 Rxd7 Ne7 Rxa7 Kg8 Bxe7 Rh5 Qe8
D11+  00:12  19.57   Rd1
D11  00:24  M13  Rd1 Ngf6 exf6 Nxf6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Qd6 Ke8 Nc7 Kd8 Ne5 Rh7 Nc6 Kc8
Nb5 Nb8 Qxb8 Kd7 Qb7 Ke8 Nd6 Kf8 Bxh6 Rxh6 Qf7
D12  00:39  M11  Rd1 Ngf6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Qd6 Ke8 Nc7 Kd8 Nxe6 Ke8 Ng7 Kd8 e6 Nhf6 e7
Kc8 Qc6 Kb8 Bf4 Ne5 Bxe5
D13  01:16  M10  Rd1 Ngf6 exf6 Nxf6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Qd6 Ke8 Nc7 Kd8 Nxe6 Ke8 Ng7 Kf7
Qxd7 Kg8 Ne6 h5 Qg7
D14  02:16  M10  Rd1 Ngf6 exf6 Nxf6 Rxd7 Nxd7 Qd6 Ke8 Nc7 Kd8 Nxe6 Ke8 Ng7 Kf7
Qxd7 Kg8 Ne6 h5 Qg7

It reached the same depth 5 times faster and does not seem to be in any danger
of losing the mate score it found. Chess is so much easier when you just grab
the Queen!





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