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Subject: Re: A Blast from the past - DBII didn't win a single game!!

Author: Vasik Rajlich

Date: 04:58:16 04/30/05

Go up one level in this thread


On April 29, 2005 at 16:32:16, Uri Blass wrote:

>On April 29, 2005 at 06:50:46, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>
>>On April 29, 2005 at 05:23:51, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On April 28, 2005 at 23:17:46, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 28, 2005 at 22:01:24, chandler yergin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 28, 2005 at 20:30:36, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 28, 2005 at 15:17:13, Rolf Tueschen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 28, 2005 at 14:12:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hsu didn't win.  Deep Blue "won".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1. DBII lost in game one. Very badly. Kasparov's superior chess!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2. Then Kasparov gave up a drawn game. He was very confused.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>3. Then three draws.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>4. Then Kasparov threw another game. He was no longer in the match since the
>>>>>>>second game...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So, where DBII WON a single game?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The _official_ history of the match has DB winning rounds 2 and 6, losing round
>>>>>>1, and drawing the rest.  What part of that is confusing?  If you want to play
>>>>>>word games and say that the 1-0 result in round two means black lost rather than
>>>>>>that white won, fine.  In round 1 DB lost, Kasparov didn't win.
>>>>>
>>>>>Could not the same thing be said about Game 6?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That was my point.  That was Rolf's claim in fact.  It works both ways.  But
>>>>whether DB won a game, or Kasparov lost the game, the final result is _exactly_
>>>>the same...
>>>
>>>The final result is not exactly the same in the meaning that if DB won games not
>>>thanks to stupid errors of kasparov then the impression of the chess players
>>>could be that DB is better than Kasparov and after the match the impression of
>>>the chess players was not that DB is better than Kasparov.
>>>
>>>Both mistakes of kasparov in the games that he lost are mistakes that kasparov
>>>does not do against humans and both were result of not understanding the
>>>machine.
>>>
>>>In game 2 Kasparov believed that he has no chance for a perpetual check because
>>>he believed that DB could see it after getting the impression that DB saw
>>>another perpetual earlier in the game because it was the only way that kasparov
>>>could explain DB's move to himself.
>>>The result was that he even did not analyze this possibility.
>>>
>>>In game 6 Kasparov played for a line that he was not ready to play.
>>>
>>>DB did not get a losing position in game 1 because of a stupid error so the
>>>story of game 1 is different.
>>>
>>>The impression of the chess players after the match was that DBII was not better
>>>than Kasparov at 1997 inspite of the results.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>If you want to say that DBII played just 6 games and therefore nothing was
>>proved - that's fine. That was indeed a horrible waste of resources.
>>
>>But this crap about game 1 being a "quality win" while games 2 and 6 were junk -
>>come on.
>>
>>The "cleanest" game was game 2. Yes, there was an extremely difficult perpetual
>>at the end that was missed by both sides, but aside from that it was a nice
>>"positional" game. You can just pretend that Kasparov resigned two or three
>>moves earlier.
>
>No
>
>There was no reason to resign in game 2 earlier.
>
>You resign when you believe that you have no practical chances and the game
>proves that kasparov had practical chances earlier.
>
>I believe that kasparov resigned only because of the fact that the opponent was
>a computer and he believed that the program cannot miss a perpetual after it did
>not miss a similiar idea of very deep perpetual earlier(at least this is what he
>believed because he had no different explanation for earlier moves of DBII) so
>he even did not check if he has a perpetual and assumed that he has no chances.
>
>Uri

Kasparov isn't very tough in bad positions.

Maybe it's from lack of practice ...

Vas



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