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Subject: Re: New processorgenaration and chessprograms

Author: Don Dailey

Date: 21:25:23 02/06/99

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On February 06, 1999 at 23:13:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On February 06, 1999 at 14:04:32, Don Dailey wrote:
>
>>On February 05, 1999 at 17:53:57, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>
>>>On February 05, 1999 at 15:50:20, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 05, 1999 at 14:52:07, Don Dailey wrote:
>>>>[snip]
>>>>>There are some companies selling these machines at reasonable
>>>>>prices, better than you might think.  They can run Windows NT and
>>>>>Linux.  Crafty would really scream on this machine.  I don't know
>>>>>if Bob has an Alpha NT port or not, but there is a good chance a
>>>>>recompile of Crafty will do the trick.
>>>>There is an ALPHA NT version at my website.  It is a single CPU compile, but it
>>>>is just a #define away from being an SMP version.  If anybody wants me to build
>>>>an SMP version for the Alpha chip, let me know.  We have an Alpha machine being
>>>>used in C.A.P. right now.  If I did a port for our big ALPHA unix machine, we
>>>>might really see some performance.  The Alpha NT machine we have is a pipsqueak
>>>>(old and not a very high MHz chip).
>>>>
>>>>>The big problem is how many
>>>>>programs will run on an NT Alpha machine?   This I don't really know.
>>>>>But theoretically, it should be easy to port most NT software.
>>>>It they are in C, it should not take much.  Especially if they are simply
>>>>Winboard engines.  All you have to do is recompile it.  It is almost always the
>>>>GUI stuff that is system specific.  And if they already work on Windows 95 or
>>>>Windows NT, the port is trivial.
>>>>
>>>>>Programs like Fritz, which are developed with assemblers won't
>>>>>port without a huge effort so don't expect to see them.   It's
>>>>>the classic tradeoff, if you want the most compatibility and
>>>>>comfort, you have to accept more performance constraints.  You
>>>>>also have to face your fears,  superior products usually die
>>>>>eventually because the lesser (usually lesser because it is OLDER)
>>>>>product is the one that has the most intertia and the most hype.
>>>>I would *really* love to try an EV6 machine with 8 cpu's running NT to see what
>>>>it could do.  While the Alpha machine has native 64 bit integers for the
>>>>compiler, the OS is still 32 bit.  I think a 64 bit port of NT will also be very
>>>>helpful.  Tablebase and opening book I/O would be improved, for instance.
>>>
>>>Here I have Dell dual PII/400 and Digital dual Alpha 21164A/500.
>>>Based on my experience, those machines have almost identical
>>>performance - even on Crafty, which does a lot of 64-bit operations,
>>>Alpha is only marginally faster. My feelings are confirmed by
>>>SpecInt95.
>>>
>>>I know that 21164A is slower than 21264, but Pentium/400 is not
>>>the last processor from Intel, too.
>>>
>>>The real Alpha advantage lays in 64-bit pointers - it's ideal for
>>>huge databases. But not for chess, and not with 32-bit NT.
>>>
>>>Eugene
>>
>>I don't get this at all.  My program runs way faster on an Alpha,
>>even adjusted for megahertz.  You cannot be doing this test right.
>>
>>Are you comparing native code applications?
>>
>>- Don
>
>
>Here's my test results.  For Paris, running on NT on a pentium pro 200mhz
>machine, we did 80K for our 6 minute benchmark run.  Jason fiddled around
>for a few days compiling for an alpha, and on the 500mhz 21164 we used in
>paris, the same test produces 250K nodes per second, a factor of 3.1 times
>faster, for a clock speed of 2.5X faster.  Which is actually pretty close,
>mhz for mhz, with intel.

mhz for mhz may not be a fair comparison to the alpha's.  It probably
takes a bigger hit (per mhz) than it would if it were running at 200mhz,
with bus/memory/cache issues etc.

Your program is extremely pentium friendly compared to mine.  I did
some tests a while back and I noticed that Crafty and Cilkchess have
similar nodes per second on the alpha's.   But on the pentiums Crafty
is way faster.   I haven't had any time to figure out why this is so
but I know you have worked hard at making it run well on a pentium.
The difference isn't some small factor either it was enormous.


> But the 21264 is about 2x faster than the 21164 at
>the same clock speed, based on numbers I have received...  (running Crafty)
>which means it blows the PII's away badly, and even the upcoming 500mhz PIII's)
>although I wouldn't mind having 4 slot-2 PIII/500's when they are shipped.  I
>am saving money for them for my quad, for sure.  :)

I am waiting for the new alpha's!

- Don



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