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Subject: Re: Crafty 19.19 to catch too. A new K.O.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 22:06:54 05/16/05

Go up one level in this thread


On May 16, 2005 at 12:01:19, Matthew Hull wrote:

>On May 16, 2005 at 11:27:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 15, 2005 at 15:53:11, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>
>>>On May 15, 2005 at 11:02:17, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 15, 2005 at 01:53:40, Joshua Haglund wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 14, 2005 at 10:40:22, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 14, 2005 at 01:06:41, Joshua Haglund wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 13, 2005 at 22:48:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 13, 2005 at 19:21:37, Joshua Haglund wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 13, 2005 at 13:48:27, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hello Robert
>>>>>>>>>>It was a mistake in redaction. Antiajedrez or Antichess have been my extreme
>>>>>>>>>>anticomputer style, across I have won many times many top engines in all time
>>>>>>>>>>game control. But usually Crafty have been for me a real problem for beat, iqual
>>>>>>>>>>than Rufian, Tiger Gambit 2.0 , Quark .....
>>>>>>>>>>Usually I am playing into playchess. There I have won many top engines, but to
>>>>>>>>>>repeat..... Craftuy have ben very strong, but today in morning look ...... 2
>>>>>>>>>>easy draw. Why?
>>>>>>>>>>Regard,
>>>>>>>>>>Pablo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hello Pablo,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've told you a couple times, if you remember, Dr. Hyatt removed the stone-wall
>>>>>>>>>detection code in version 19.15. It was removed because it appeared to Dr. Hyatt
>>>>>>>>>it wasn't needed anymore.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>As a result it should be easier for you using "anti-chess" playing Crafty.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Joshua Haglund
>>>>>>>>>toneewa@yahoo.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If I looked at the game correctly, this wasn't a stonewall type problem, it was
>>>>>>>>just e4 Nf3 and Bc4 for white if I am recalling the right game (I have looked at
>>>>>>>>several today so that could be wrong).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[D]k1/2rbp1pp/1p3p1r/p2P1P2/P1P1B1P1/1P2R2P/5NK1 b - - 0 121
>>>>>>>[D]n3/2rr1q1k/1p1p1p1p/p1p1pPpP/4P2N/P1PP2Q1/1P3PRK/6R1 b - - 0 38
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>These are to me "stone-wall" positions. I don't know how Crafty use to detect
>>>>>>>the "stone wall"... by pawn formation positions or by recognition of particular
>>>>>>>moves; maybe both. Pablo use to play Crafty and have not much luck before the
>>>>>>>removal of the "stone-wall" detection.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Joshua Haglund
>>>>>>>toneewa@yahoo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The stonewall code looked for pawns at f4, e3, d4, c3.  If three of those were
>>>>>>present, it assumed "stonewall"...  This doesn't seem to match...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What if the pawns are for black??
>>>>>In these examples of Pablo's games;
>>>>>
>>>>>black pawns: a5,b6,c5,d6,e5,f6,g5,h6
>>>>>definately stone wall with black.
>>>>>
>>>>>white pawns: a4,b3,c4,d5,f5,g4,h3
>>>>>partial wall, but two strong pawn chains.
>>>>>
>>>>>The code was removed (19.15) so Crafty doesn't recognize anything like that now?
>>>>>
>>>>>Joshua Haglund
>>>>>toneewa@yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wouldn't matter.  The "pattern" is a pawn at c3, d4, e3 and f4, or if you mirror
>>>>that for black, c6, d5, e6, f5.  The "stonewall problem" is the pawn at e3/e6
>>>>makes it very difficult for the bishop it is blocking.  And the bishop tangles
>>>>other pieces up making a quick g/h file attack successful if the engine makes a
>>>>single mistake in untangling.
>>>>
>>>>If you have played e4/e5, then that problem doesn't happen, since d3/d6 lets the
>>>>bishop out.
>>>
>>>
>>>>To handle the case in the game(s) given, crafty depends on its
>>>>"blocked pawn" code to avoid the position getting so blocked and becoming
>>>>drawish.
>>>
>>>
>>>But is that logic only active if crafty knows it's playing human?
>>
>>
>>That's a good question.  I'll go back a few versions and look.  I don't think it
>>was "human only" however, but it might have been.
>>
>>Just looked at 19.6, and it was active for all opponents, not just humans.  The
>>only way it was turned off was to turn off the asymmetric evaluation option,
>>which also turned the stonewall detection code off since it was asymmetric as
>>well.
>
>
>I'm probably thinking of the old internal GM and "blockers" lists, which used to
>take special care to prevent closed positions, IIRC.


Yes "blockers" would just ramp up the blocked pawn penalties by increasing the
asymmetry.  Made it _very_ difficult to block things up, but did open up another
"hole" that a very strong player might exploit, in that it would try too hard to
avoid blocking things, even when it should.



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