Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Backsolving is spreading everywhere.AAAAAAAAAAAAAAgh

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 22:23:06 05/16/05

Go up one level in this thread


On May 17, 2005 at 01:19:28, Robin Smith wrote:

>On May 16, 2005 at 23:54:43, Komputer Korner wrote:
>
>>Since my 5 years away from computer chess, I have noticed that Backsolving has
>>spread from program to program like an unstoppable weed.  Chiefly promoted by
>>Mike Leahy, it now threatens to permeate computer chess the way that
>>chiropractic has permeated medicine. If the lie is big enough, it is
>>unstoppable. However unlike medicine, there are no unknowns in the theory of
>>computer chess. The only unknowns are moves that haven't been played yet but the
>>actual unplayed moves are irrelevant to our discussion of the merits of
>>backsolving. Perhaps the single biggest argument against backsolving is you need
>>an actual evalustion at the last node. Without an evaluation you can't
>>backsolve. However why would anybody depend on the last moves of a game to
>>decide what the evaluation will be at the first nodes? Remember, backsolving is
>>used in conjunction with studying openings.  There  is a long way between the
>>end of a game and the opening. So then others would argue that okay we don't
>>need to backsolve the last moves, we will only backsolve all the nodes from the
>>15-20th moves all the way back to the 1st moves. Isn't this  studying openings
>>from the wrong way? I thought studying openings was spending my time analyzing
>>the first moves of chess games, not the last moves. But the backsolvers argue
>>that if you know the result then you know the beginning. However  you really
>>do't know the result. You only know an infitessimal number of results compared
>>to the total. Therefore you are wasting bytes and time taken to actually
>>backsolve. don't forget that backsolvers always want every node annotated.  that
>>is the whole purpose of backsolving. however moves are added to the book one
>>line or move at a time. You could dump other books and into your book and batch
>>backsolve but most of the time you are adding one move to your book at time. if
>>you have to backsolve each time, then you will be doing  alot of backsolving
>>over the years. If you don't backsolve everyday but instead only backsolve every
>>week then you have defeated the purpose of backsolving because backsolving means
>>always having every node annotated. If you don't have every node annotated then
>>you are likeme and my opening book, just the critical nodes at the begiining of
>>the book are annotated with all the deep lines pruned off because you will never
>>get to those moves anyway because of the vast middlegame number of move choices.
>> My opening book is just that, an opening book, not a complete games book
>>desguised as an opening bok. But the true backsolvers will say that they prune
>>the moves as well. If that is the case,then they don't need to backsolve because
>>they can manually add in the annotations wherever there is a fork in the road.
>>(more than 1 move choice at a node). So in the end what does backsolving
>>accomplish? NOTHING.................
>
>Of course backsolving, like any other tool, can be misused. You point out some
>potential pitfalls. However that does NOT mean that backsolving does not have
>some _very_ valid uses. That you don't seem to understand these uses does not
>mean they are not there. How about if you spend your time trying to understand
>when and why backsolving can be a very useful tool, as many others have already
>pointed out, rather then waste time trying to convince people that a screw
>driver is no good for pounding nails.
>
>-Robin

I suspect it has a very limited use, and I doubt many think about that.

Terry



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.