Author: stuart taylor
Date: 08:41:27 05/17/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 16, 2005 at 23:14:57, Darrel Briley wrote: >On May 16, 2005 at 13:45:52, stuart taylor wrote: > >>On May 16, 2005 at 13:26:40, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On May 16, 2005 at 13:06:16, stuart taylor wrote: >>> >>>>On May 15, 2005 at 16:04:25, gerold daniels wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 15, 2005 at 11:25:12, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 15, 2005 at 10:44:49, stuart taylor wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 15, 2005 at 09:13:24, Klaus Wlotzka wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>How can this be? Is this really true? What's the catch? >>>>>>>Maybe we are speaking only of Blitz? Maybe some other top engines were absent? >>>>>>>Or what? >>>>>>>S.Taylor >>>>>> >>>>>>Time control is 10 minutes per game+10 seconds per move and the hardware is >>>>>>more than twice faster than ssdf hardware. >>>>>> >>>>>>It seems to be about 3 times faster time control than the ssdf games. >>>>>> >>>>>>I do not know the rating of Shredder9 at 120/40 and I cannot say that it is >>>>>>impossible that it is also 100 elo better at 120/40 time control. >>>>>> >>>>>>The fact that it had problems against Junior proves nothing because a program >>>>>>may have problems against one opponent. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>>good afternoon Uri. Sedat has shredder 9 104 points above junior 9 in his latest >>>>>tourney. 60 min.10 sec. >>>>> >>>>>gerold. >>>> >>>>THAT wasn't being disputed! >>>>An actual match between the two is hard for Shredder 9. (Even though Shredder >>>>7.04 crushes Junior 9). >>>>S.Taylor >>> >>>The results of the ssdf do not prove that Shredder7.04 does better against >>>Junior reltive to Shredder9. >>>The main problem is that a match is not undependent games. >>> >>>I did not analyze what happened. >>>The problem is that it is possible that shredder7.04 was lucky to find some >>>weakness in Junior in the first games and also found weakness in the learning of >>>Junior so it could beat Junior easily when Shredder9 may be unlucky. >>> >>>Without looking at the game and understanding why Shredder7.04 did better you >>>can say nothing. >>> >>> >>>Here is a possible explanation(I did not look at the games and did not try to >>>analyze the reason for the better result of Shredder7.04): >>> >>> >>>It is possible that shredder9 started with 1.f4 in the first game with white and >>>lost so it never repeated 1.f4 >>>It is possible that the reason was some line that Junior play normally with >>>probability of 1%. >>>It is possible that Shredder7.04 started with 9 wins in with 1.f4 and one >>>loss(in the same line that Shredder9 also lost) and the single loss did not >>>convince shredder7.04 to avoid 1.f4 and it simply chose a different line with >>>1.f4 but a different move later. >>> >>>Uri >> >>I looked very carefully, not at the games themselves, but at many sets of games >>between the two (or three!), and many different testings in different formats, >>which have been posted ever since Junior 9 came out. You will find this ro be >>ALWAYS (or practically always) the case. I asked many times how this is, and I >>never got answers, except perhaps the usual stuff....."not enough games". I >>think most people ignored this interesting fact. >>S.Taylor > >Despite the results of the SSDF Shredder9/Junior9 match, testing done on my own >machine (Athlon 2600+ Barton Core, 1GB RAM, Hash 256 for each engine, own books >120/40 30 minutes for remaining moves, so far a total of 137 games, shows >Shredder9 UCI to be clearly stronger than Junior 9. I don't know what to >attribute the difference to, other than the hardware, and the larger number of >games. You tested them against each other in 137 games? Very good, if so. But Shredder 9 is probably just about limping along to keep a lead. But two generations earlier than that, there was the Shredder 7.32 which crushes Junior 9 in one on one's. i.e. played off against each other. Am I wrong? This was seen in several tests from several testers who posted their results in this forum. Unless you say that that Shredder 9 DOES absolutely CRUSH Junior 9, and that it might be becasuse the hardware you are using is stronger and that it favours Shredder 9. If so, then I would be quite happy. Also, are you talking about the new Shredder which is optimized for 64-bit? S.Taylor
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