Author: Robin Smith
Date: 18:52:26 05/17/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 17, 2005 at 16:57:12, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>On May 17, 2005 at 14:29:19, Robin Smith wrote:
>
>>On May 13, 2005 at 23:49:26, Komputer Korner wrote:
>>
>>"Komputer Korner",
>>
>>Your post is full of errors. See below for a point by point rebuttal.
>>
>>>On May 12, 2005 at 18:31:52, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bookups backsolving is basically a minimax algorithm + refutations.
>>>>
>>>>ChessAssistant does the same thing.
>>>>
>>>>It is a very good idea.
>>>>
>>>>IMO-YMMV.
>>>The following explanation will prove that I am the real KK. Compare my answer
>>>with logical opening theory articles and the 10 kommandments I did 5 years ago.
>>>The problem is that minimax is only useful to a computer.
>>
>>Wrong. Minimax is useful to anyone doing tree searching. Chess masters use
>>minimax all the time; they just don't call it that. Instead they say things like
>>"16.Re1 initially looked appealing, but then I saw the killer reply Bxh7+". In
>>essense this is a verbal description of either the masters thinking or the
>>minimax algorithm.
>
>Robin, I think, you are arguing for alpha-beta search here, not for minimax.
>Minimax will always look at all moves, even when you already found a refutation
>("beta cutoff") for you opponents last move. A similar term "brute force"
>searching is often used for both, pure minimax and for alpha-beta (and as a
>reader, it is not always clear, which one is meant).
>
>A couple of years ago, I read some game analysis (description of his thinking
>processes during the game) by Robert Hübner in a chess magazine. The way he
>argued, I got almost convinced, that he used alpha-beta search. I will not be
>able to give a correct citation to the article (it was in Rochade Europa). From
>my memory he used phrases like: "there was no need to look for other
>alternatives in this line, after I had analysed ... [he got a beta cutoff]" and
>more such things. At that time I already understood alpha-beta search. It
>seemed, he explained it in non technical words.
>
>Regards,
>Dieter
Hi Dieter,
You are, of course, correct. I would add that 1) as you know minimax and
alpha-beta produce identical final results, alpha-beta just gets the minimax
result faster and 2) No-one (that I know of) builds a Bookup database containing
every move in every position (brute force); obviously bad moves are left out of
the database. "Komputer Korner" was in effect talking about a pseudo alpha-beta
as well. And his point that "minimax [and therefore by extension alpha-beta] is
only useful to a computer" is just plain not correct.
Regards,
Robin
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