Author: chandler yergin
Date: 10:10:11 05/21/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 21, 2005 at 03:41:19, Terry McCracken wrote: >On May 21, 2005 at 03:13:00, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On May 20, 2005 at 20:42:14, Terry McCracken wrote: >> >>>On May 20, 2005 at 19:50:00, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On May 20, 2005 at 18:42:57, Daniel Pineo wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 03:45:37, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 03:21:34, jefkaan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 19, 2005 at 14:01:43, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>He certainly knows something of opening theory. He's a little passed 1.e4:o) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>that's fine in a anti-computer style. >>>>>>>but fundamentally 1.e4 is the best. >>>>>>>it might be a solution of chess. >>>>>>>but we wont know this of course until >>>>>>>the year 3000 or so(*) >>>>>>>best regards >>>>>>>jef >>>>>>>(*)yes chess also might be a draw; we don't know yet >>>>>> >>>>>>I do...it's a draw, and the proof is all around you in the chess world. >>>> >>>>Yes Terry, again assertions, no Proof. >>>>How little you know. >>>>Proving once again.. you don't know! >>>>The 'evidence' is against your position! >>>>The facts are against your position! >>>> >>>>Based on 1,114,334 Games >>>>1-0 413,652 games = 34% >>>> >>>>1/2 1/2 381,463 games or 35% >>>> >>>>0-1 318,393 Games or 28% >>>> >>>>You have NO argument or point! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>And what might that proof be? >>> >>>I gave antidotal evidence, ie, one pawn up is 99% of the time a draw, there is >>>statistical evidence that chess is a draw...number wins losses and draws...etc. >>> >>>No way in hell can the first half move win...it's value falls with every >>>consective move played thereafter, barring any errors. >>> >>>Tell me Chan, do you know any GM's that would say chess isn't a draw? >> >>Yes, probably most of them. > >No, you wouldn't. > >>As long as there is the human element, a battle of wills and ideas, the game >>will continue to be Wins, Losses & Draws. Three possible outcomes, the >>Percentages are yet to be determined. > >We have a broad database on that. Karpov was pleased with the level of chess >today and the increasing level of draws. > >> >>>Besides, you beleive it to be a draw so what's your damn problem?! >> >>No, I don't believe it can be proven now or ever. > > >Don't be so certain. > >>The player that moves first has an advantage. > >Very small...it's worth at best 20 rating points. >It drops rapidly, after ten moves it is hardly apparent. > >>Whether this initiative can be nullified with perfect play can not be >>determined. Nor can perfect play ever be determined. > >Yeah, I've heard this how many times now? Too many! > >>You can speculate that with 'perfect' play on both sides it should be. >>That does not make it so. This is not Tic tac toe. > >Really? As if I hadn't noticed...and it's not relevent. > >>We can only list the millions of game that have been played since Chess >>was invented as a game, & review the results. >>We have done that. > >Yes, and it favours the draw Chan. > >Now for KK. > >http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?427154 > >There is a way to statistically prove it which is not a mathematical proof of >course. What do you consider Statistics are if not mathmatical? Hmmm? What you do is look at results of matches between players of equal >caliber . You look at different calibers(ie:rating).You then measure the draw >results. You can also do it with different time control matches as well. If the >% of draws goes up constantly all the way to the top ratings, and if your sample >sizes are large enough then statistics would point to whether with perfect play >chess is a draw or not. No it won't. You cannot get a significant Sample Size! Your Basic Premise is wrong! You would be hard pressed to find any GM who thinks >chess is a win for white. >KK The Statistics speak for itself. Based on 1,114,334 Games 1-0 413,652 games = 34% 1/2 1/2 381,463 games or 35% 0-1 318,393 Games or 28% These are Rated Games from the Total played. As long as Chess is played between humans there are only 3 possible outcomes Win Loss or Draw. There will always be a percentage of Draws among the Top Players. So what? It will never approach a significant Percentile. White always has the advantage.
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