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Subject: Re: is hydra now stronger than deep blue?

Author: Lar Mader

Date: 19:14:43 05/26/05

Go up one level in this thread


>>
>>I think that it is correct only if we have not the games
>>but based on analyzing the games deeper blue did blunders that even free
>>programs can avoid today at tournament time control on fast hardware.
>>
>>[D]R7/1r3kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/6K1 w - - 0 1
>>
>>finding Kh1 and not Kf1 is easy for free programs like Fruit and Yace when
>>Deep Blue failed to find that move.
>>
>>I saw no impressive move in the games of deep blue against kasparov that top
>>programs need hours to find so I guess that the top programs of today are simply
>>better than Deep Blue.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I need to correct it for yace
>
>Yace finds Kh1 but later changes it's mind to Kf1
>I thought that it rejected Kf1 for the correct reason when it has in the pv Qe3
>but later it changes it's mind and has in the pv Qxc6 and not Qe3.
>
>Fruit seems to have no problem with that position.
>
>New game, 40'/40
>R7/1r3kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/6K1 w - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Yace 0.99.87:
>
>1.Qxb6 Rxb6
>  =  (0.13)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6
>  =  (0.24)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6
>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6
>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 1   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6
>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 2   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6
>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 2   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6
>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 2.Ra7+ Bc7 3.Rxc7+ Kf8
>  ²  (0.28)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 2.Ra7+ Be7 3.g3
>  ²  (0.33)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 2.Ra7+ Be7 3.g3
>  ²  (0.33)   Depth: 3   00:00:00
>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 2.g3 h5 3.Ra7+ Be7
>  =  (0.24)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Ke7
>  =  (0.25)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g3
>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g3
>  ²  (0.27)   Depth: 4   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Bc7 4.Rxc7+ Kf8
>  ²  (0.67)   Depth: 5   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Be7 4.Bd5+ Ke8 5.c7 Rc8
>  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 5   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Be7 4.Bd5+ Ke8 5.c7 Rc8
>  ²  (0.69)   Depth: 5   00:00:00
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7
>  ±  (0.72)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  21kN
>1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Be7 4.Bd5+ Ke8 5.c7 Rb6 6.c8Q+ Bd8
>  ±  (0.73)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  37kN
>1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 5.c7 Rc8
>  ±  (0.81)   Depth: 6/16   00:00:00  40kN
>1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 5.c7 Rc8
>  ±  (0.81)   Depth: 6/18   00:00:01  41kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.g3 Qf2+ 5.Bg2 Kh7 6.d6
>  ±  (0.71)   Depth: 7/18   00:00:01  120kN
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Kg8
>  ±  (0.72)   Depth: 7/18   00:00:01  133kN
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 5.c7 Rc8
>  ±  (0.85)   Depth: 7/18   00:00:01  142kN
>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 5.c7 Rc8
>  ±  (0.85)   Depth: 7/20   00:00:01  185kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh7 5.Qf7 Qe3 6.Qg6+ Kh8
>  ±  (0.72)   Depth: 8/21   00:00:01  261kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh7 5.Qf7 Qe3 6.Qg6+ Kh8
>  ±  (0.72)   Depth: 8/22   00:00:01  410kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qf7+ Kh7 5.Ke2 Rd8 6.Qg6+ Kg8 7.Rf7
>  ²  (0.64)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:01  561kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Be7 4.Ra7 h5 5.Bd5+ Kf8 6.c7 Ra8
>  ²  (0.65)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:01  907kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Kh7 5.Rd7 Bf8 6.c7 Rc8
>  ±  (0.71)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:01  970kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Kh7 5.Rd7 Bf8 6.c7 Rc8
>  ±  (0.71)   Depth: 9/26   00:00:02  1113kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Kh7 5.Rd7 Bf8 6.c7 Rc8 7.g3
>  ±  (0.80)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:02  1479kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 h5 5.Rd7 Be7 6.c7 Bd8
>  ±  (0.81)   Depth: 10/30   00:00:02  2318kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7
>  ±  (0.83)   Depth: 10/30   00:00:02  2450kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7
>  ±  (0.83)   Depth: 10/30   00:00:02  2670kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bd5 Rb8 6.Rf7+ Ke8 7.Rxg7 Rd8
>  ±  (1.03)   Depth: 11/32   00:00:03  4174kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bd5 Rb8 6.Rf7+ Ke8 7.Rxg7 Rd8
>  ±  (1.03)   Depth: 11/34   00:00:03  4975kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Be7 7.c7 Kg8
>  ±  (1.08)   Depth: 12/41   00:00:07  10063kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Be7 7.c7 Rb7 8.c8Q+
>Kf7
>  ±  (1.09)   Depth: 12/41   00:00:08  10827kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bb1
>  ±  (1.11)   Depth: 12/41   00:00:09  11882kN
>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Kh7 5.Rd7 Bf8 6.c7 Rb7 7.c8Q Kh8
>  ±  (1.12)   Depth: 12/41   00:00:11  14655kN
>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Rc8 7.Rxd6 Kh7
>  ±  (1.14)   Depth: 12/41   00:00:11  15138kN
>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Rc8 7.Rxd6 Kh7
>  ±  (1.14)   Depth: 12/41   00:00:11  15138kN
>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.h4 Kg8 6.Rb7 Rb8 7.Rd7
>  ±  (0.93)   Depth: 13/45   00:00:15  20137kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Rc8 7.Rxd6 Rc7
>  ±  (0.94)   Depth: 13/45   00:00:16  21682kN
>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Ke8 6.Rxb5 Rc7 7.g3 h5 8.Ra5
>  +-  (1.50)   Depth: 13/46   00:00:23  30638kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Rc8 7.Rxd6 h5
>  +-  (1.51)   Depth: 13/46   00:00:34  42727kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rc7 6.Rxb5 Ke8 7.g3 Bxb4 8.cxb4
>Ke7
>  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 13/46   00:00:39  48302kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rc7 6.Rxb5 Ke8 7.g3 Bxb4 8.cxb4
>Ke7
>  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 13/46   00:00:39  48546kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4 Re7 5.Bf3 Qc1+ 6.Kf2 Qd2+ 7.Kg3 Qe1+ 8.Kh3
>Qh1+ 9.Kg4 e4 10.Qf4 exf3 11.Qxf3
>  ±  (1.31)   Depth: 14/46   00:02:04  140058kN
>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Kh2 h5 6.Rb7 Rb8 7.Rd7 Rc8 8.Rxd6
>Kf7
>  ±  (1.32)   Depth: 14/54   00:02:36  175070kN
>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 h5 6.Rxb5 Ke7 7.Ra5 Rc7 8.g4 h4
>  +-  (1.45)   Depth: 14/54   00:02:44  184404kN
>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 h5 6.Rxb5 Ke7 7.Ra5 Rc7 8.g4 h4
>  +-  (1.45)   Depth: 14/54   00:02:44  184837kN
>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Rc8 4.Ra5 Ke8 5.Kh2 Bc7 6.Rxb5 Rb8 7.Rc5 g6 8.fxg6
>Ke7
>  +-  (1.48)   Depth: 15/54   00:03:02  204824kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4 Re7 5.Bf3 Qc1+ 6.Kf2 Qd2+ 7.Kg3 Qe1+ 8.Kg4
>e4 9.Qd8 Rd7 10.Qxd7+ Kf8
>  +-  (1.49)   Depth: 15/59   00:04:09  277144kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4
>  +-  (1.49)   Depth: 15/59   00:05:07  339937kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4
>  +-  (1.49)   Depth: 15/59   00:05:44  380942kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bd5 Rc7 6.Ra8+ Ke7 7.Rg8 h5 8.Rxg7+
>Ke8 9.Rg8+ Bf8 10.Rh8 Rg7 11.Rxh5 Bxb4 12.cxb4
>  +-  (1.81)   Depth: 16/59   00:10:07  653799kN
>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bd5 Rc7 6.Ra8+ Ke7 7.Rg8 h5 8.Rxg7+
>Ke8 9.Rg8+ Bf8 10.Rh8 Rg7 11.Rxh5 Bxb4 12.cxb4
>  +-  (1.81)   Depth: 16/61   00:11:43  766649kN
>
>(,  26.05.2005)
>
>Uri


Shredder 9 needs 10 mins 13 secs (on my P4 3.06 Ghz machine) to realize that Kh1
is correct.  But given how fast Deeper Blue was, this is still a pretty good
result:

New game,
R7/1r3kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/6K1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Deep Shredder 9:

1.Qxb6
  ²  (0.41)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g4
  ±  (0.97)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kh1
  ±  (0.98)   Depth: 5/10   00:00:00
1.Kh1 Qxc6
  ±  (1.14)   Depth: 5/12   00:00:00
1.Kh2
  ±  (1.15)   Depth: 5/12   00:00:00
1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6
  ±  (1.20)   Depth: 5/12   00:00:00
1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7
  ±  (1.27)   Depth: 6/14   00:00:00
1.Kh2 Rb8
  ±  (1.02)   Depth: 7/15   00:00:00  42kN
1.Kh2 Rb8
  ±  (1.02)   Depth: 7/15   00:00:00  46kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh7 5.Qf7 Qe3
  ±  (1.15)   Depth: 7/15   00:00:00  49kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh7 5.Qf7 Qe3
  ±  (1.15)   Depth: 7/15   00:00:00  53kN
1.Kh1
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 7/16   00:00:00  74kN
1.Kh1 Rb8
  ±  (1.16)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  102kN
1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh8 5.Qxb6 Rxb6 6.g4 Kg8 7.Kg2 Rd6
  ±  (0.98)   Depth: 8/18   00:00:00  135kN
1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh7 5.Qxb6 Rxb6 6.g4 Kg8 7.Kg3 Rd6
  ±  (1.00)   Depth: 8/18   00:00:00  140kN
1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh7 5.Qxb6 Rxb6 6.g4 Kg8 7.Kg3 Rd6
  ±  (1.00)   Depth: 8/18   00:00:00  145kN
1.Kf1
  +-  (1.46)   Depth: 8/18   00:00:00  150kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+
  +-  (1.74)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  187kN
1.Kf1 Rb8
  +-  (1.49)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:00  231kN
1.Kf1 Rb8
  +-  (1.46)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:00  236kN
1.Kh1
  +-  (1.47)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:00  285kN
1.Kh1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.Ra5 Ke7 4.Rxb5 Ra7 5.g4 Kd8 6.Kg2 Kc7
  +-  (1.56)   Depth: 9/25   00:00:00  387kN
1.Kh1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.Ra5 Ke7 4.Rxb5 Ra7 5.g4 Kd8 6.Kg2 Ra2+ 7.Kf3 Kc7
  +-  (1.70)   Depth: 10/20   00:00:01  468kN
1.Kh1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.Bd5+ Ke7 4.Rg8 g5 5.fxg6 f5 6.Rh8 Kf6 7.Rxh6
  +-  (1.69)   Depth: 11/24   00:00:01  731kN
1.Kh1 Qxc6
  +-  (1.44)   Depth: 12/37   00:00:02  1430kN
1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.g4 Kf8 6.Kg1 Rc7
  ±  (1.29)   Depth: 12/39   00:00:03  1980kN
1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.g4 Kh7 6.Rd7 Bc7 7.Kg2
  +-  (1.53)   Depth: 13/26   00:00:05  2749kN
1.Kf1
  +-  (1.54)   Depth: 13/35   00:00:06  3377kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 h5
  +-  (1.88)   Depth: 13/35   00:00:06  3736kN
1.Kf1 Rb8
  +-  (2.13)   Depth: 14/38   00:00:09  5431kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8
  +-  (2.38)   Depth: 14/38   00:00:10  6290kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 h5
  +-  (2.37)   Depth: 15/43   00:00:14  8488kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8
  +-  (2.55)   Depth: 16/43   00:00:23  13865kN
1.Kf1 Rb8
  +-  (2.30)   Depth: 17/48   00:01:29  49964kN
1.Kf1 Rb8
  +-  (1.80)   Depth: 17/48   00:01:53  63109kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4 Qxe4 5.Ra7+
  +-  (1.80)   Depth: 17/50   00:03:44  119708kN
1.Kf1 Rb8
  +-  (1.55)   Depth: 18/51   00:06:48  210842kN
1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qf7+ Kh8 5.Ke2 Rd8 6.Qb7 Rb8 7.Qxb6
  ±  (1.21)   Depth: 18/51   00:10:02  313444kN
1.Kh1
  ±  (1.22)   Depth: 18/51   00:10:13  319327kN
1.Kh1
  +-  (1.57)   Depth: 18/51   00:10:19  322612kN
1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3
  +-  (2.18)   Depth: 18/51   00:11:44  370017kN
1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Re8 4.Ra7+ Re7 5.Ra5 h5
  +-  (2.33)   Depth: 19/51   00:12:24  391645kN
1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Rc8 4.Ra7+ Rc7 5.Ra8 Bf8 6.Ra5 Bd6 7.g4 Ke7 8.Ra8
  +-  (2.36)   Depth: 20/51   00:15:31  484941kN
1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Rc8 4.Ra7+ Rc7 5.Ra8 Bf8 6.Ra5 Bd6 7.g4 Ke7 8.Ra8
  +-  (2.36)   Depth: 21/54   00:19:48  608403kN




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