Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:33:10 05/27/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 27, 2005 at 10:51:54, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >On May 26, 2005 at 22:14:43, Lar Mader wrote: > >>>> >>>>I think that it is correct only if we have not the games >>>>but based on analyzing the games deeper blue did blunders that even free >>>>programs can avoid today at tournament time control on fast hardware. >>>> >>>>[D]R7/1r3kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/6K1 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>finding Kh1 and not Kf1 is easy for free programs like Fruit and Yace when >>>>Deep Blue failed to find that move. >>>> >>>>I saw no impressive move in the games of deep blue against kasparov that top >>>>programs need hours to find so I guess that the top programs of today are simply >>>>better than Deep Blue. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>I need to correct it for yace >>> >>>Yace finds Kh1 but later changes it's mind to Kf1 >>>I thought that it rejected Kf1 for the correct reason when it has in the pv Qe3 >>>but later it changes it's mind and has in the pv Qxc6 and not Qe3. >>> >>>Fruit seems to have no problem with that position. >>> >>>New game, 40'/40 >>>R7/1r3kp1/1qQb1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp1B3/2P4P/6P1/6K1 w - - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Yace 0.99.87: >>> >>>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 >>> = (0.13) Depth: 1 00:00:00 >>>1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6 >>> = (0.24) Depth: 1 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 1 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 1 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 2 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 2 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 2.Ra7+ Bc7 3.Rxc7+ Kf8 >>> ² (0.28) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 2.Ra7+ Be7 3.g3 >>> ² (0.33) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 2.Ra7+ Be7 3.g3 >>> ² (0.33) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>1.Qxb6 Rxb6 2.g3 h5 3.Ra7+ Be7 >>> = (0.24) Depth: 4 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Ke7 >>> = (0.25) Depth: 4 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g3 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 4 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rc7 3.g3 >>> ² (0.27) Depth: 4 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Bc7 4.Rxc7+ Kf8 >>> ² (0.67) Depth: 5 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Be7 4.Bd5+ Ke8 5.c7 Rc8 >>> ² (0.69) Depth: 5 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Be7 4.Bd5+ Ke8 5.c7 Rc8 >>> ² (0.69) Depth: 5 00:00:00 >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 >>> ± (0.72) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 21kN >>>1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Be7 4.Bd5+ Ke8 5.c7 Rb6 6.c8Q+ Bd8 >>> ± (0.73) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 37kN >>>1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 5.c7 Rc8 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 6/16 00:00:00 40kN >>>1.Kh2 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 5.c7 Rc8 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 6/18 00:00:01 41kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.g3 Qf2+ 5.Bg2 Kh7 6.d6 >>> ± (0.71) Depth: 7/18 00:00:01 120kN >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Kg8 >>> ± (0.72) Depth: 7/18 00:00:01 133kN >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 5.c7 Rc8 >>> ± (0.85) Depth: 7/18 00:00:01 142kN >>>1.Kf1 Qxc6 2.dxc6 Rb8 3.Ra7+ Kf8 4.Rd7 Be7 5.c7 Rc8 >>> ± (0.85) Depth: 7/20 00:00:01 185kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh7 5.Qf7 Qe3 6.Qg6+ Kh8 >>> ± (0.72) Depth: 8/21 00:00:01 261kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qe6+ Kh7 5.Qf7 Qe3 6.Qg6+ Kh8 >>> ± (0.72) Depth: 8/22 00:00:01 410kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Qd7+ Kg8 3.Ra7 Bf8 4.Qf7+ Kh7 5.Ke2 Rd8 6.Qg6+ Kg8 7.Rf7 >>> ² (0.64) Depth: 9/22 00:00:01 561kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Be7 4.Ra7 h5 5.Bd5+ Kf8 6.c7 Ra8 >>> ² (0.65) Depth: 9/22 00:00:01 907kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Kh7 5.Rd7 Bf8 6.c7 Rc8 >>> ± (0.71) Depth: 9/22 00:00:01 970kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Kh7 5.Rd7 Bf8 6.c7 Rc8 >>> ± (0.71) Depth: 9/26 00:00:02 1113kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Kh7 5.Rd7 Bf8 6.c7 Rc8 7.g3 >>> ± (0.80) Depth: 10/26 00:00:02 1479kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 h5 5.Rd7 Be7 6.c7 Bd8 >>> ± (0.81) Depth: 10/30 00:00:02 2318kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 >>> ± (0.83) Depth: 10/30 00:00:02 2450kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 >>> ± (0.83) Depth: 10/30 00:00:02 2670kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bd5 Rb8 6.Rf7+ Ke8 7.Rxg7 Rd8 >>> ± (1.03) Depth: 11/32 00:00:03 4174kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bd5 Rb8 6.Rf7+ Ke8 7.Rxg7 Rd8 >>> ± (1.03) Depth: 11/34 00:00:03 4975kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Be7 7.c7 Kg8 >>> ± (1.08) Depth: 12/41 00:00:07 10063kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Be7 7.c7 Rb7 8.c8Q+ >>>Kf7 >>> ± (1.09) Depth: 12/41 00:00:08 10827kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bb1 >>> ± (1.11) Depth: 12/41 00:00:09 11882kN >>>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Kh7 5.Rd7 Bf8 6.c7 Rb7 7.c8Q Kh8 >>> ± (1.12) Depth: 12/41 00:00:11 14655kN >>>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Rc8 7.Rxd6 Kh7 >>> ± (1.14) Depth: 12/41 00:00:11 15138kN >>>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kg8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Rc8 7.Rxd6 Kh7 >>> ± (1.14) Depth: 12/41 00:00:11 15138kN >>>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.h4 Kg8 6.Rb7 Rb8 7.Rd7 >>> ± (0.93) Depth: 13/45 00:00:15 20137kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Rc8 7.Rxd6 Rc7 >>> ± (0.94) Depth: 13/45 00:00:16 21682kN >>>1.Kh2 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Ke8 6.Rxb5 Rc7 7.g3 h5 8.Ra5 >>> +- (1.50) Depth: 13/46 00:00:23 30638kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rb8 6.Rd7 Rc8 7.Rxd6 h5 >>> +- (1.51) Depth: 13/46 00:00:34 42727kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rc7 6.Rxb5 Ke8 7.g3 Bxb4 8.cxb4 >>>Ke7 >>> +- (1.53) Depth: 13/46 00:00:39 48302kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 Rc7 6.Rxb5 Ke8 7.g3 Bxb4 8.cxb4 >>>Ke7 >>> +- (1.53) Depth: 13/46 00:00:39 48546kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4 Re7 5.Bf3 Qc1+ 6.Kf2 Qd2+ 7.Kg3 Qe1+ 8.Kh3 >>>Qh1+ 9.Kg4 e4 10.Qf4 exf3 11.Qxf3 >>> ± (1.31) Depth: 14/46 00:02:04 140058kN >>>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Kh2 h5 6.Rb7 Rb8 7.Rd7 Rc8 8.Rxd6 >>>Kf7 >>> ± (1.32) Depth: 14/54 00:02:36 175070kN >>>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 h5 6.Rxb5 Ke7 7.Ra5 Rc7 8.g4 h4 >>> +- (1.45) Depth: 14/54 00:02:44 184404kN >>>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Rb7 h5 6.Rxb5 Ke7 7.Ra5 Rc7 8.g4 h4 >>> +- (1.45) Depth: 14/54 00:02:44 184837kN >>>1.Kh1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Rc8 4.Ra5 Ke8 5.Kh2 Bc7 6.Rxb5 Rb8 7.Rc5 g6 8.fxg6 >>>Ke7 >>> +- (1.48) Depth: 15/54 00:03:02 204824kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4 Re7 5.Bf3 Qc1+ 6.Kf2 Qd2+ 7.Kg3 Qe1+ 8.Kg4 >>>e4 9.Qd8 Rd7 10.Qxd7+ Kf8 >>> +- (1.49) Depth: 15/59 00:04:09 277144kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4 >>> +- (1.49) Depth: 15/59 00:05:07 339937kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qe3 3.Qxd6 Re8 4.h4 >>> +- (1.49) Depth: 15/59 00:05:44 380942kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bd5 Rc7 6.Ra8+ Ke7 7.Rg8 h5 8.Rxg7+ >>>Ke8 9.Rg8+ Bf8 10.Rh8 Rg7 11.Rxh5 Bxb4 12.cxb4 >>> +- (1.81) Depth: 16/59 00:10:07 653799kN >>>1.Kf1 Rb8 2.Ra6 Qxc6 3.dxc6 Kf8 4.Ra7 Rc8 5.Bd5 Rc7 6.Ra8+ Ke7 7.Rg8 h5 8.Rxg7+ >>>Ke8 9.Rg8+ Bf8 10.Rh8 Rg7 11.Rxh5 Bxb4 12.cxb4 >>> +- (1.81) Depth: 16/61 00:11:43 766649kN >>> >>>(, 26.05.2005) >>> >>>Uri >> >> >>Shredder 9 needs 10 mins 13 secs (on my P4 3.06 Ghz machine) to realize that Kh1 >>is correct. But given how fast Deeper Blue was, this is still a pretty good >>result: > >Deep Blue was not 'faster' when expressed in search depth. > >Deep Blue, as we can see in its logfiles searched 10-12 ply. In 1997 that was a >very big search depth if you realize they didn't use nullmove and did do a huge >search in hardware. > >If you would let the Deep Blue from back then play now, then it would be about >2200-2300 rated now. I think that almost nobody except you believe in it. I believe that deep Blue is weaker than the top programs of today but even deep thought performed clearly better than 2200-2300. Human learned and improved but I do not believe that 2200-2300 of today are stronger than 2500 of the time of deep thought. Uri
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