Author: Vasik Rajlich
Date: 08:17:27 05/29/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 29, 2005 at 08:45:21, Uri Blass wrote: >On May 29, 2005 at 06:57:36, Vasik Rajlich wrote: > >>On May 28, 2005 at 12:41:24, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >> >>>On May 28, 2005 at 11:18:05, Matthew Hull wrote: >>> >>>>On May 28, 2005 at 10:46:48, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 18:02:25, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 17:54:57, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hello Thomas >>>>>>>I would like to see playing into playchess engines room, to Dr. Robert Hyatt >>>>>>>engines. >>>>>>>For me is a problem to play into ICC because I have not premoves into ICC, and >>>>>>>as a guest if there are disconnection immediately I will be lost. >>>>>>>I would like to play a challenger (just for fun and for testing engines to be >>>>>>>better engines and of course me too) into playchess against Crafty from Dr >>>>>>>Robert Hyatt and against Quark, if could be possible into main room better for >>>>>>>everyone. >>>>>>>Unique way for me to discover new ways will be playing in long time controls. >>>>>>>This has been a dream for me Thomas. >>>>>>>Best regard, >>>>>>>Pablo >>>>>> >>>>>>If I understand correctly >>>>>>I understand that engines lose on time automatically at move 257 in playchess >>>>>>and that this problem is not engine problem but interface problem. >>>>>> >>>>>>I think that if this problem is not fixed then engines suffer from unfair >>>>>>conditions in playchess. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>>It seems that maybe you don't understand the technique. >>>>> >>>>>A human with pre-move (and just enough lag) will always win a closed position on >>>>>time if the game is long enough - regardless of time control (as long as there >>>>>is no increment), and regardless of anything that happens on move 257. >>>> >>>> >>>>Bob Hyatt says crafty will never lose on time this way. So far, Pablo has not >>>>been able to win against crafty on ICC with this technique. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Vas >>> >>>Let me show you how to do it :) >>> >>>Vas >> >>Ok - crafty is damn hard to provoke into closing the position and I didn't have >>the patience for a zillion games. >> >>Still - the question is, how many moves will crafty play in a 3-minute game >>before running out of time. There is of course some limit, even if it's 1000. > > >If it is 1000 then the question is if it is possible to get a game of 1000 game >against the program. > > A >>pre-mover can play an infinite amount. >> >>Vas > >No > >After 50 moves with no capture and conversion the program claims a draw and >there is some practical limit for the number of moves in the game. > >I doubt if humans can play 1000 moves against a program without getting some >winning position in the process and without draw by the 50 move rule. > > That doesn't contradict anything I said. The point is that you can't say that Crafty will never lose on time. You can only say that in a 3 0 game, Crafty can play X moves, and that X is usually going to be enough. > > >A premover can be punished by some stupid sacrifice. >I do not think that it is very hard to make a program that detect premovers and >punish them by that way. > >Of course that way have risks but if the program is not deterministic about the >time of making the stupid sacrifice the opponent may lose most of the games >because he will be unable to guess when the program make the stupid sacrifice >and when to stop premoving. > Yes, of course. This sort of pre-move-based guessing is normal stuff in human-human bullet games. If you're good at it, it's easily worth 100 rating points. Vas >Uri
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