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Subject: Re: Is Possible a Challenger in Playchess Dr Robert Hyatt Crafty and Quark ?

Author: Vasik Rajlich

Date: 08:17:27 05/29/05

Go up one level in this thread


On May 29, 2005 at 08:45:21, Uri Blass wrote:

>On May 29, 2005 at 06:57:36, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>
>>On May 28, 2005 at 12:41:24, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>
>>>On May 28, 2005 at 11:18:05, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 10:46:48, Vasik Rajlich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 18:02:25, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 17:54:57, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hello Thomas
>>>>>>>I would like to see playing into playchess engines room, to Dr. Robert Hyatt
>>>>>>>engines.
>>>>>>>For me is a problem to play into ICC because I have not premoves into ICC, and
>>>>>>>as a guest if there are disconnection immediately I will be lost.
>>>>>>>I would like to play a challenger (just for fun and for testing engines to be
>>>>>>>better engines and of course me too) into playchess against Crafty from Dr
>>>>>>>Robert Hyatt and against Quark, if could be possible into main room better for
>>>>>>>everyone.
>>>>>>>Unique way for me to discover new ways will be playing in long time controls.
>>>>>>>This has been a dream for me Thomas.
>>>>>>>Best regard,
>>>>>>>Pablo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If I understand correctly
>>>>>>I understand that engines lose on time automatically at move 257 in playchess
>>>>>>and that this problem is not engine problem but interface problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think that if this problem is not fixed then engines suffer from unfair
>>>>>>conditions in playchess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>It seems that maybe you don't understand the technique.
>>>>>
>>>>>A human with pre-move (and just enough lag) will always win a closed position on
>>>>>time if the game is long enough - regardless of time control (as long as there
>>>>>is no increment), and regardless of anything that happens on move 257.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob Hyatt says crafty will never lose on time this way.  So far, Pablo has not
>>>>been able to win against crafty on ICC with this technique.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Vas
>>>
>>>Let me show you how to do it :)
>>>
>>>Vas
>>
>>Ok - crafty is damn hard to provoke into closing the position and I didn't have
>>the patience for a zillion games.
>>
>>Still - the question is, how many moves will crafty play in a 3-minute game
>>before running out of time. There is of course some limit, even if it's 1000.
>
>
>If it is 1000 then the question is if it is possible to get a game of 1000 game
>against the program.
>
> A
>>pre-mover can play an infinite amount.
>>
>>Vas
>
>No
>
>After 50 moves with no capture and conversion the program claims a draw and
>there is some practical limit for the number of moves in the game.
>
>I doubt if humans can play 1000 moves against a program without getting some
>winning position in the process and without draw by the 50 move rule.
>
>

That doesn't contradict anything I said. The point is that you can't say that
Crafty will never lose on time. You can only say that in a 3 0 game, Crafty can
play X moves, and that X is usually going to be enough.

>
>
>A premover can be punished by some stupid sacrifice.
>I do not think that it is very hard to make a program that detect premovers and
>punish them by that way.
>
>Of course that way have risks but if the program is not deterministic about the
>time of making the stupid sacrifice the opponent may lose most of the games
>because he will be unable to guess when the program make the stupid sacrifice
>and when to stop premoving.
>

Yes, of course. This sort of pre-move-based guessing is normal stuff in
human-human bullet games. If you're good at it, it's easily worth 100 rating
points.

Vas

>Uri



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