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Subject: Re: Ruffian: 1.b6 and [1.gxf4] both mate in 11 moves

Author: stuart taylor

Date: 17:05:11 05/29/05

Go up one level in this thread


On May 29, 2005 at 15:58:25, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On May 29, 2005 at 15:23:32, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>
>>On May 29, 2005 at 15:18:48, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>
>>>On May 29, 2005 at 14:48:13, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 14:43:47, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 13:44:31, Jack Lad wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>[d] 8/8/P3kp2/1PR4p/4bp1P/2K3P1/8/8 w
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1.gxf4 is better and leads to a quicker win than 1.b6 so why do engines prefer
>>>>>>the latter?  Or maybe your engine doesn't - let me know please.
>>>>>
>>>>>The engines are merely Queening his b-Pawn as quickly as possible. Black can't
>>>>>get a queen with f3, since the White King can stop that and if fxg3, then both
>>>>>will Queen, but after White plays Qb6+ Kf7 Rc7+, the Qb8
>>>>
>>>>Oops! Make that the Qg1
>>>>
>>>>> will hang due to a
>>>>>discovered attack. This what I see using my one brain cell.
>>>
>>>Ruffian prefers gxf4 from ply 1 and never waivers and eventually returns a mate
>>>score.
>>>
>>>Ruffian 1.0.1  UCI 13 MB:
>>>D1  00:00  6.67   gxf4
>>>D2  00:00  6.64   gxf4 Ba8
>>>D3  00:00  7.24   gxf4 f5 b6
>>>D4  00:00  7.30   gxf4 Bf3 b6 Kd6
>>>D5  00:00  7.74   gxf4 Kd6 Rxh5 Bf3 Rh7
>>>D6  00:00  8.15   gxf4 Kd6 Rxh5 Kc7 Rc5 Kd6 Kd4
>>>D7  00:00  8.25   gxf4 Kd6 Rxh5 Bf3 a7 Kc7 Rh8 Kb6
>>>D8  00:00  8.41   gxf4 Kd6 b6 Kxc5 b7 f5 b8Q Kc6
>>>D9  00:00  9.41   gxf4 Kd6 b6 Kxc5 b7 Bc6 b8Q Kd5 a7 Ke4
>>>D10  00:00  10.76   gxf4 Bf3 Rc6 Bxc6 bxc6 Kd6 a7 Kxc6 a8Q Kd6 Qa6 Ke7 Qe2 Kf7
>>>Qxh5 Ke6 Kd4
>>>D11+  00:01  11.11   gxf4
>>>D11  00:01  14.85   gxf4 f5 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Bc6 b7 Kc7 Rxc6 Kxc6 b8R Kd7 a7 Ke6 a8Q
>>>D12-  00:02  14.50   gxf4
>>>D12  00:02  14.95   gxf4 f5 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Bc6 b7 Kc7 Rxc6 Kxc6 b8R Kd7 a7 Ke7
>>>D13-  00:03  14.60   gxf4
>>>D13  00:04  15.27   gxf4 f5 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Ke6 b7 Bxb7 axb7 Kf6 Rc6 Ke7 Ke5 Kd7 Rc3
>>>Ke7
>>>D14-  00:06  14.92   gxf4
>>>D14+  00:07  15.62   gxf4
>>>D14  00:10  16.60   gxf4 Bf3 b6 Kd6 Kd4 f5 b7 Bxb7 axb7 Ke6 Rc6 Kf7 Ke5
>>>D15+  00:15  16.95   gxf4
>>>D15  00:27  20.46   gxf4 Bf3 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Bc6 b7 Kc7 Rxc6 Kxc6 b8Q Kd7 Qb5 Ke7 a7
>>>Ke6 Qd5
>>>D16+  00:42  20.81   gxf4
>>>D16  02:10  M11  gxf4 Bf3 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Bc6 b7 Kc7 b8Q Kxb8 Rxc6 f5 Kc5 Ka7 Rc7 Ka8
>>>Kb6 Kb8 a7 Ka8 Rc8
>>>D17  02:44  M11  gxf4 Bf3 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Bc6 b7 Kc7 b8Q Kxb8 Rxc6 Ka8 Kc5 Ka7 f5 Ka8
>>>Kb6 Kb8 a7 Ka8 Rc8
>>>D18  03:32  M11  gxf4 Bf3 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Bc6 b7 Kc7 b8Q Kxb8 Rxc6 Ka8 Kc5 Ka7 f5 Ka8
>>>Kb6 Kb8 a7 Ka8 Rc8
>>>D19  05:15  M11  gxf4 Bf3 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Bc6 b7 Kc7 b8Q Kxb8 Rxc6 Ka8 Kc5 Ka7 f5 Ka8
>>>Kb6 Kb8 a7 Ka8 Rc8
>>>
>>>
>>>After forcing 1.b6 Ruffian finds an equally fast mate:
>>>
>>>[D]8/8/PP2kp2/2R4p/4bp1P/2K3P1/8/8 b - -
>>>
>>>Ruffian 1.0.1  UCI 13 MB:
>>>D1  00:00  4.97   fxg3 Rxh5
>>>D2  00:00  4.97   fxg3 Rxh5
>>>D3  00:00  4.02   fxg3 Rxh5 g2 b7 g1Q b8Q
>>>D4  00:00  4.02   fxg3 Rxh5 g2 b7 g1Q b8Q
>>>D5  00:00  4.02   fxg3 Rxh5 g2 b7 g1Q b8Q
>>>D6  00:00  6.14   fxg3 Kd4 g2 Rc1 Bd3 Kxd3 Kd6
>>>D7  00:00  7.30   fxg3 Kd4 g2 Rc1 Kd6 Kxe4 Ke6 b7 f5 Kf4
>>>D7  00:00  6.48   f3 Kd4 f2 Rc1 Bg2 b7 f1Q Rxf1 Bxf1 b8Q Bxa6
>>>D8  00:00  8.71   f3 Kd4 f2 Rc1 Bg2 b7 Kd7 b8Q f1R
>>>D9  00:00  9.17   f3 Kd4 f2 Rc1 Bg2 b7 f5 b8Q f1R Rxf1 Bxf1
>>>D10  00:00  9.81   f3 Kd4 f2 Rc1 Bg2 b7 f1Q Rxf1 Bxf1 a7 Be2 b8Q
>>>D11  00:01  9.92   f3 b7 f2 b8Q f1Q Qb3 Kd7 Qa4 Kd6 Qd4 Ke6 Qxe4 Kd7 Qd3 Qxd3
>>>Kxd3 f5 a7 Kd6 a8Q Kxc5
>>>D12+  00:01  10.27   f3
>>>D12  00:05  18.95   f3 b7 f2 b8Q f1Q Qb3 Kd7 Qa4 Qb5 Qxb5 Ke6 Rc6 Bxc6 Qxc6 Kf5
>>>Qf3 Kg6 a7 f5 a8Q
>>>D12  00:09  14.70   fxg3 b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Qc5 Kg4 Rg7 Kf3
>>>Qxh5 Kf4 Kd4
>>>D13-  00:13  14.35   fxg3
>>>D13+  00:14  15.05   fxg3
>>>D13  00:26  15.98   fxg3 b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Qe3 Bh1 Qh3 Ke5
>>>Qh2 Ke4 Qxh1 Ke3
>>>D14+  00:34  16.33   fxg3
>>>D14  00:40  19.41   fxg3 b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Qf1 Ke6 Kd4 Bc6
>>>Rxc6 Kd7 a7 Kxc6 a8Q Kd7 Qxf6
>>>D15+  01:08  19.76   fxg3
>>>D15  01:18  23.80   fxg3 b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Qf2 Kg6 Qe3 Bc2
>>>a7 Kf5 Kxc2 Kg6 Qe8 Kh6 a8Q
>>>D15-  01:24  19.06   f3
>>>D15  01:42  M10  f3 b7 f2 b8Q f1Q Qb3 Kd7 Qa4 Qb5 Qxb5 Ke6 Rc7 Bc6 Qxc6 Kf5 Re7
>>>Kg4 Rg7 Kf5 Qd5
>>>D16  05:35  M10  f3 b7 f2 b8Q f1Q Qb3 Kd7 Qa4 Qb5 Qxb5 Ke6 Rc7 Bc6 Qxc6 Kf5 Re7
>>>Kg4 Rg7 Kf5 Qd5
>>>
>>>The above mate starts with 1.b6 f3. I wanted see what happened after 1.b6 fxg3
>>>so I forced both moves:
>>>
>>>[D]8/8/PP2kp2/2R4p/4b2P/2K3p1/8/8 w - -
>>>
>>>Ruffian 1.0.1  UCI 13 MB:
>>>D1  00:00  4.97   Rxh5
>>>D2  00:00  4.02   Rxh5 g2 b7 g1Q
>>>D3  00:00  4.02   Rxh5 g2 b7 g1Q b8Q
>>>D4  00:00  4.02   Rxh5 g2 b7 g1Q b8Q
>>>D5  00:00  3.87   Rxh5 g2 b7 Kf7 a7 Kg6 Rb5 g1Q b8Q
>>>D5  00:00  4.76   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qe8 Kd6 Rxh5
>>>D5  00:00  6.14   Kd4 g2 Rc1 Bd3 Kxd3 Kd6
>>>D6  00:00  7.30   Kd4 g2 Rc1 Kd6 Kxe4 Ke6 b7 f5 Kf4
>>>D7  00:00  8.35   Kd4 g2 Rc1 Bc6 b7 Bb5 Rg1 Bxa6 b8Q
>>>D7  00:00  10.86   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Bc6 Rxc6 Kd7 Rd6 Ke7 Qxg1 Kxd6
>>>D8  00:00  10.86   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Bc6 Rxc6 Kd5 Rd6 Ke5 Qxg1 Kxd6
>>>D9  00:00  13.01   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Bc6 Rxc6 Kd5 Rd6 Ke5 Qd4 Qxd4 Rxd4 f5 a7 f4
>>>a8Q
>>>D10  00:01  12.86   b7 g2 b8Q Kf7 Qb3 Kg7 Rc7 Kg6 Re7 Bc6 Qb1 f5 Re6 Kf7 Rxc6
>>>D11+  00:02  13.21   b7
>>>D11  00:03  14.70   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Qc5 Kg4 Rg7 Kf3 Qxh5
>>>Kf4 Kd4
>>>D12+  00:05  15.05   b7
>>>D12  00:07  16.37   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 a7 Ba8 Qf1 Ke6 Qc4
>>>Ke5 Re7 Kf5 Qc8 Kf4 Qxa8
>>>D13-  00:09  16.02   b7
>>>D13+  00:13  16.72   b7
>>>D13  00:31  23.80   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Qf2 Kg6 Qe3 Bc2 a7
>>>Kf5 Kxc2 Kg6 Qe8 Kh6 a8Q
>>>D14  00:41  23.80   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Qf2 Kg6 Qe3 Bc2 a7
>>>Kf5 Kxc2 Kg6 Qe8 Kh6 a8Q
>>>D15+  00:56  24.15   b7
>>>D15  01:14  25.69   b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Re7 Bf3 Qd4 Bc6 Rf7
>>>Be4 Rxf6 Kg4 Qxe4 Kh3 a7 Kh2 a8Q
>>>D16+  01:37  26.04   b7
>>>D16  02:10  M13  b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Qd4 Kf4 Qxf6 Bf5 Qg5 Ke5
>>>Re7 Kd6 Qf6 Be6 Rxe6 Kd7 Re7 Kd8 Qf8
>>>D17  03:44  M12  b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Rf7 Ke6 Qg7 Kd5 Rxf6 Bf5
>>>Rxf5 Ke6 Qg6 Ke7 Rf7 Ke8 Qg8
>>>D18  05:30  M10  b7 g2 b8Q g1Q Qb6 Kf7 Rc7 Kg6 Qxg1 Kf5 Kd4 Ke6 Qe3 Kd6 Qf4 Ke6
>>>Qxe4 Kd6 Qe7
>>>
>>>Mate in 10 as expected.
>>>
>>>Conclusion: 1.b6 and 1.fxg4 win equally fast according Ruffian.
>>
>>Argh! Make that 1.gxf4...
>>
>>I need to practice my chess notation. Too much internet chess it seems.
>
>After reading Merlino's post I forced 1.gxf4 and finally got the mate in 10 that
>he got:
>
>[D]8/8/P3kp2/1PR4p/4bP1P/2K5/8/8 b - -
>
>Ruffian 1.0.1  UCI 13 MB:
>D1  00:00  6.65   f5
>D1  00:00  6.64   Ba8
>D2  00:00  8.06   Ba8 Rxh5
>D2  00:00  7.24   f5 b6
>D3  00:00  8.64   f5 Re5 Kd6 Rxe4 fxe4
>D3  00:00  7.30   Bf3 b6 Kd6
>D4  00:00  9.75   Bf3 Rc6 Bxc6 bxc6 Kd6 a7 Kxc6 a8Q
>D4  00:00  7.74   Kd6 Rxh5 Bf3 Rh8
>D5  00:00  8.15   Kd6 Rxh5 Kc7 Rc5 Kd6 Kd4
>D6  00:00  8.25   Kd6 Rxh5 Bf3 a7 Kc7 Rh8 Kb6
>D7  00:00  8.41   Kd6 b6 Kxc5 b7 f5 b8Q Kc6
>D8  00:00  9.41   Kd6 b6 Kxc5 b7 Bc6 b8Q Kd5 a7 Ke4
>D9  00:00  11.83   Kd6 Kd4 Bf3 b6 Bc6 b7 Kc7 Rxc6 Kxc6 b8Q f5
>D9  00:00  10.86   Bf3 Rc6 Bxc6 bxc6 Kd6 a7 Kxc6 a8Q Kd7 Kd4 Ke6 Qd5 Ke7 Qxh5
>Ke6
>D10  00:00  14.97   Bf3 b6 f5 b7 Bxb7 axb7 Kd6 Kd4 Ke6 Rc6 Kd7 Kd5 Ke7 b8Q
>D10-  00:01  10.51   Kd6
>D10  00:01  14.97   Kd6 Kd4 Bf3 b6 f5 b7 Bxb7 axb7 Ke6 Rc6 Kd7 Kd5 Ke7
>D11  00:01  14.90   Kd6 Kd4 Bf3 b6 Bc6 b7 Kc7 Rxc6 Kxc6 b8R Kd7 a7 Ke6 a8Q
>D12-  00:01  14.55   Kd6
>D12+  00:01  15.25   Kd6
>D12  00:01  15.27   Kd6 Kd4 f5 b6 Bf3 b7 Bxb7 axb7 Ke6 Rc6 Kd7 Rc3 Ke7 Ke5 Kf7
>b8Q
>D13+  00:02  15.62   Kd6
>D13-  00:03  14.92   Kd6
>D13  00:04  19.45   Kd6 Kd4 Bf3 b6 Bc6 b7 Kc7 Rxc6 Kxc6 b8Q Kd7 a7 Ke6 Qc8 Kf7
>Ke4 Kg6 a8Q
>D14+  00:09  19.80   Kd6
>D14-  00:10  19.10   Kd6
>D14  00:12  20.51   Kd6 Kd4 Bf3 b6 Bc6 b7 Kc7 Rxc6 Kxc6 b8Q Kd7 Qb5
>D15+  00:17  20.86   Kd6
>D15-  00:21  20.16   Kd6
>D15  00:23  24.74   Kd6 Kd4 Bf3 b6 Ke6 b7 Bc6 Rxc6 Kf5 a7 Kxf4 b8Q Kg4 Qg8
>D16  00:59  24.90   Kd6 Kd4 Bf3 b6 Ke6 b7 Bc6 Rxc6 Kf5 a7 Kg4 b8Q Kxh4 Rxf6 Kh3
>Qb3 Kh2 Qf3 h4 a8Q
>D16-  01:15  24.39   Bf3
>D16  01:28  24.90   Bf3 b6 Kd6 Kd4 Ke6 b7 Bc6 Rxc6 Kf5 a7
>D17+  01:53  25.25   Bf3
>D17  03:35  M10  Bf3 b6 Bd5 b7 Kf5 b8Q Kg4 Rxd5 Kf3 Rd3 Kg4 Qg8 Kf5 Rd5 Ke4 Qg2
>Kxf4 Rd4 Kf5 Qe4
>D18  05:38  M10  Bf3 b6 Bd5 b7 Kf5 b8Q Kg4 Rxd5 Kf3 Rd3 Kg4 Qg8 Kf5 Rd5 Ke4 Qg2
>Kxf4 Rd4 Kf5 Qe4
>D19  06:55  M9  Bf3 b6 Bd5 b7 Kf5 Rxd5 Kg4 b8Q Kf3 Rd3 Kg4 Qe8 Kxf4 a7 Kf5 a8Q
>Kg4 Qae4
>
>
>So 1.gxf4 is faster after all. Difficult for Ruffian.
>
>BTW, all this is on my 1.3 ghz Centrino.

What's meant to be so weak about a 1.3 Ghz Centrino? It wasn't that long ago
when even the fastest desktop surpassed the speed of your laptop.
S.Taylor



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