Author: Vasik Rajlich
Date: 02:44:43 05/31/05
Go up one level in this thread
On May 30, 2005 at 16:38:02, Thomas Mayer wrote: >Hi Vasik, > >On May 30, 2005 at 15:50:44, Vasik Rajlich wrote: > >>On May 30, 2005 at 05:20:10, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On May 30, 2005 at 05:09:18, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>> >>>>On May 29, 2005 at 23:26:29, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 11:17:27, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 08:45:21, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 29, 2005 at 06:57:36, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 12:41:24, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 11:18:05, Matthew Hull wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On May 28, 2005 at 10:46:48, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 18:02:25, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On May 27, 2005 at 17:54:57, Pablo Ignacio Restrepo wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Hello Thomas >>>>>>>>>>>>>I would like to see playing into playchess engines room, to Dr. Robert Hyatt >>>>>>>>>>>>>engines. >>>>>>>>>>>>>For me is a problem to play into ICC because I have not premoves into ICC, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>as a guest if there are disconnection immediately I will be lost. >>>>>>>>>>>>>I would like to play a challenger (just for fun and for testing engines to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>better engines and of course me too) into playchess against Crafty from Dr >>>>>>>>>>>>>Robert Hyatt and against Quark, if could be possible into main room better for >>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Unique way for me to discover new ways will be playing in long time controls. >>>>>>>>>>>>>This has been a dream for me Thomas. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Best regard, >>>>>>>>>>>>>Pablo >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>If I understand correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>I understand that engines lose on time automatically at move 257 in playchess >>>>>>>>>>>>and that this problem is not engine problem but interface problem. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>I think that if this problem is not fixed then engines suffer from unfair >>>>>>>>>>>>conditions in playchess. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>It seems that maybe you don't understand the technique. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>A human with pre-move (and just enough lag) will always win a closed position on >>>>>>>>>>>time if the game is long enough - regardless of time control (as long as there >>>>>>>>>>>is no increment), and regardless of anything that happens on move 257. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Bob Hyatt says crafty will never lose on time this way. So far, Pablo has not >>>>>>>>>>been able to win against crafty on ICC with this technique. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Vas >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Let me show you how to do it :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Vas >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Ok - crafty is damn hard to provoke into closing the position and I didn't have >>>>>>>>the patience for a zillion games. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Still - the question is, how many moves will crafty play in a 3-minute game >>>>>>>>before running out of time. There is of course some limit, even if it's 1000. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If it is 1000 then the question is if it is possible to get a game of 1000 game >>>>>>>against the program. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A >>>>>>>>pre-mover can play an infinite amount. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Vas >>>>>>> >>>>>>>No >>>>>>> >>>>>>>After 50 moves with no capture and conversion the program claims a draw and >>>>>>>there is some practical limit for the number of moves in the game. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I doubt if humans can play 1000 moves against a program without getting some >>>>>>>winning position in the process and without draw by the 50 move rule. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>That doesn't contradict anything I said. The point is that you can't say that >>>>>>Crafty will never lose on time. You can only say that in a 3 0 game, Crafty can >>>>>>play X moves, and that X is usually going to be enough. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>In theory, crafty can play 180,000 moves in a 3 0 game. In reality it won't, >>>>>because it will use more time up front. But in that last second of time, it can >>>>>play 1000 moves. Pre-move is going to get you absolutely killed there, for >>>>>reasons I have already stated. >>>>> >>>>>We can set up a guest account test on ICC for you to try if you want. I already >>>>>know the result. _nobody_ tries that type of play against Crafty any longer. >>>>>Several used to. >>>> >>>>Ok, I'd like to try it. (Probably you're right but this way I can say that I >>>>tested it.) >>>> >>>>Can I start from the following position: >>>> >>>>[D] r1bqk1br/1p1p1p1p/pPpPpPpP/R7/3B1B2/8/P1P1P1P1/3K3R w kq - >>>> >>>>At 3 0? >>> >>>This position is illegal. >>> >>>There is no way that the black bishop could go to g8. >>> >>>Uri >> >>I forgot to mention that it's from a Fischer random game. >> >>:) > >which is not possible either -> in FRC the bishops are always from different >colors in the initial position. So let's say it's from a Shuffle Chess game... >:) > >Greets, Thomas Hi Thomas -- Aha, that's a good rule. This Fischer guy really thought of everything. So indeed it was a Shuffle game. :) Vas
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