Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 08:29:55 06/01/05
Go up one level in this thread
On June 01, 2005 at 05:06:39, Tony Hedlund wrote:
Hi Tony,
I am much surprised by the 1-9 result and so I did some checking on the below
game.
case-1: 13.. Bxg4??? (12) -0.19
First of all it is impossible ProDeo only thinks 12 plies deep in this position
and secondly the move 13..Bxg4 is impossible to reproduce. I list the right
analysis with the default setting:
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be2 e5 7.Nb3 Be7 8.O-O
O-O 9.Kh1 Qc7 10.g4 Be6 11.g5 Nfd7 12.Bg4 Re8 13.Be3
rn2r1k1/1pqnbppp/p2pb3/4p1P1/4P1B1/1NN1B3/PPP2P1P/R2Q1R1K b - -
00:00:00 1.00 -0.19 13..Bxg4 14.Qxg4
00:00:00 1.02 0.01 13..Nc6
00:00:00 2.00 -0.23 13..Nc6 14.Nd5
00:00:00 2.06 -0.01 13..Bxg4 14.Qxg4 Nc6
00:00:00 3.00 -0.24 13..Bxg4 14.Qxg4 Nc6 15.Qf5
00:00:00 4.00 -0.22 13..Bxg4 14.Qxg4 b6 15.Qf5 Nc6
00:00:00 4.01 -0.13 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Bxd5 15.Qxd5 Nb4
00:00:00 4.03 -0.05 13..Nb6 14.Bxe6 fxe6 15.Bxb6 Qxb6 16.Qh5
00:00:00 5.00 -0.34 13..Nb6 14.Bxe6 fxe6 15.Qh5 Rf8 16.f4
00:00:00 5.01 -0.16 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.h4
00:00:00 6.00 -0.14 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Rg1 Nc5 16.Nxe7
00:00:00 7.00 -0.19 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Rg1 Bxd5 16.exd5 Nb4
17.Bf5
00:00:00 8.00 -0.22 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Rg1 b5 16.Qf3 Bxd5 17.exd5
00:00:01 9.00 -0.23 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Rg1 b6 16.c4 Bxg4 17.Qxg4
Nc5
00:00:03 10.00 -0.25 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Rg1 b5 16.Qf3 a5 17.a4
bxa4 18.Nxe7
00:00:08 11.00 -0.30 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Rg1 Rf8 16.c4 a5 17.Nd2
Bxg4 18.Qxg4 Nc5
00:00:27 12.00 -0.27 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Rg1 Rf8 16.c4 a5 17.a3
g6 18.a4 Bxg4 19.Qxg4 Nc5 20.Nd2
00:00:57 13.00 -0.29 13..Nc6 14.Nd5 Qd8 15.Rg1 Rf8 16.Qf3 g6 17.a3
Rc8 18.Qh3 Nc5 19.f3
====================================================================
case-2: 20.. Nd7?? (15) -0.27
The -0.27 score is impossible, from the 9th ply ProDeo already is below -0.70,
see the analysis with the default setting.
1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be2 e5 7.Nb3 Be7 8.O-O
O-O 9.Kh1 Qc7 10.g4 Be6 11.g5 Nfd7 12.Bg4 Re8 13.Be3 Bxg4 14.Qxg4 Nb6
15.Bxb6 Qxb6 16.f4 exf4 17.Qxf4 Rf8 18.Nd5 Qd8 19.Nf6 Kh8 20.Rf3
rn1q1r1k/1p2bppp/p2p1N2/6P1/4PQ2/1N3R2/PPP4P/R6K b - -
00:00:00 1.00 1.50 20..gxf6 21.gxf6
00:00:00 2.00 -0.43 20..gxf6 21.gxf6 Re8 22.fxe7 Rxe7
00:00:00 2.01 0.71 20..Nc6 21.Nd5 Bxg5
00:00:00 3.00 0.71 20..Nc6 21.Nd5 Bxg5
00:00:00 4.00 0.71 20..Nc6 21.Nd5 Bxg5
00:00:00 5.00 -0.27 20..Nc6 21.Qf5 gxf6 22.gxf6 Bxf6 23.Qxf6 Qxf6
24.Rxf6 Rxd6 25.Re8 Nc5 26.Re5 Nxb7 27.Rxe4
00:00:00 5.03 -0.14 20..d5 21.Nxd5 Bxg5 22.Qf5 Nd7
00:00:00 5.06 0.32 20..b5 21.Nd5 Bxg5
00:00:00 6.00 -0.63 20..b5 21.Qf5 Bxf6 22.gxf6 g6 23.Qh3 h5 24.gxf5
00:00:00 6.02 -0.33 20..Nc6 21.Qf5 Bxf6 22.gxf6 Qxf6 23.Qxf6 gxf6
24.Rxf6 Rae8 25.Raf1 Kg7 26.Nd2 Nd4
00:00:00 6.04 -0.02 20..Nd7 21.Nxd7 Qxd7 22.Qf5 Qxf5 23.Rxf5 Rac8
24.Nd4
00:00:00 7.00 0.06 20..Nd7 21.Nxd7 Qxd7 22.Qf5 Qxf5 23.Rxf5 g6
24.Rd5 f5 25.Re1 Bxg5
00:00:00 8.00 0.01 20..Nd7 21.Nxd7 Qxd7 22.Raf1 Rac8 23.R1f2 Qb5
24.Qg4 Qc4
00:00:00 9.00 -0.80 20..Nd7 21.Nxh7 Kxh7 22.Qh4 Kg8 23.Rh3 f5
24.Qh7 Kf7 25.Qh5 g6 26.Qh7 Ke8 27.Qxg6 Rf7
28.Rh8 Nf8 29.exf5 Bxg5 30.Re1 Be7 31.Qe6
00:00:03 9.07 -0.66 20..Qc8 21.Nd5 Qd8 22.Rg1 Nd7 23.Rh3 Rc8 24.Qf5
g6
00:00:06 10.00 -0.92 20..Qc8 21.Qh4 h6 22.Nd4 Nd7 23.Raf1 Nc5 24.Nf5
Bxf6
00:00:06 10.01 -0.80 20..Nd7 21.Nxh7 Kxh7 22.Qh4 Kg8 23.Rh3 f5
24.Qh7 Kf7 25.Qh5 g6 26.Qh7 Ke8 27.Qxg6 Rf7
28.Rh8 Nf8 29.exf5 Bxg5 30.Re1 Be7 31.Qe6
00:00:08 11.00 -0.71 20..Nd7 21.Nxh7 Kxh7 22.Qh4 Kg8 23.Rh3 f5
24.Qh7 Kf7 25.Qh5 g6 26.Qh7 Ke8 27.Qxg6 Rf7
28.Rh8 Nf8 29.exf5 Qc7 30.Nd4 Qc5 31.Rd1 Qe5
00:00:11 12.00 -1.03 20..Nd7 21.Nxh7 Kxh7 22.Qh4 Kg8 23.Rh3 f5
24.Qh7 Kf7 25.Qh5 g6 26.Qh7 Ke8 27.Qxg6 Rf7
28.Rh8 Nf8 29.exf5 Qc7 30.f6 Qc6 31.Kg1 Qb6
32.Kf1
00:00:28 12.02 -0.87 20..Bxf6 21.gxf6 Qxf6 22.Qxf6 gxf6 23.Rxf6
Nc6 24.Rxd6 Rfd8 25.Rad1 Rxd6 26.Rxd6 Ne5
00:00:34 13.00 -0.80 20..Bxf6 21.gxf6 Qxf6 22.Qxf6 gxf6 23.Rxf6
Nc6 24.Rxd6 Rad8 25.Rad1 Rxd6 26.Rxd6 Ne5
27.Rd5 Re8
00:00:49 14.00 -0.80 20..Bxf6 21.gxf6 Qxf6 22.Qxf6 gxf6 23.Rxf6
Nc6 24.Rxd6 Rad8 25.Rad1
00:01:59 15.00 -0.82 20..Bxf6 21.gxf6 Qxf6 22.Qxf6 gxf6 23.Rxf6
========================================
Conclusion - You must be playing with some weird settings, in any case you are
not playing with the default settings. I checked all learner settings, no
setting can create the 2 moves (and scores) in question.
Request - Please post the contents of the debug-file "param.txt", this might
give us a clue.
All the best,
Ed
>[Event "SSDF"]
>[Site "Tony Hedlund"]
>[Date "2005.05.31"]
>[Round "8"]
>[White "Junior 9 A1200"]
>[Black "Pro Deo 1.1 A1200"]
>[Result "1-0"]
>[ECO "B92"]
>[WhiteElo "2796"]
>[TimeControl "40/7200:40/7200:40/7200"]
>[PlyCount "95"]
>
>1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Be2 e5 7.Nb3 Be7 8.O-O O-O
>9.Kh1 Qc7 10.g4 Be6 11.g5 Nfd7 12.Bg4 Re8 13.Be3 Bxg4 {(e6g4 d1g4 d7b6 g4h5
>b6c4)
>-0.19/12 471 (e6g4 d1g4 d7b6 g4h5 b6c4 ) -0.19/12 471} 14.Qxg4 Nb6 {(d7b6 e3b6
>c7b6)
>-0.41/12 189 (d7b6 e3b6 c7b6 ) -0.41/12 189} 15.Bxb6 Qxb6 {(c7b6 f2f4 b6d8 f4e5)
>-0.60/15 (c7b6 f2f4 b6d8 f4e5 ) -0.60/15} 16.f4 exf4 {(e5f4 g4f4 e8f8 c3d5 b6d8
>d5e7)
>-0.46/14 (e5f4 g4f4 e8f8 c3d5 b6d8 d5e7 ) -0.46/14} 17.Qxf4 Rf8 {(e8f8 c3d5 b6d8
>d5f6
>g8h8 f4h4) -0.57/15 250 (e8f8 c3d5 b6d8 d5f6 g8h8 f4h4 ) -0.57/15 250} 18.Nd5
>Qd8
>{(b6d8 d5f6+ g8h8 f4h4 g7f6 g5f6 b8c6 f1f5) -0.49/15 (b6d8 d5f6+ g8h8 f4h4 g7f6
>g5f6
>b8c6 f1f5 ) -0.49/15} 19.Nf6+ Kh8 {(g8h8 f4h4 g7f6 g5f6 e7f6 h4f6) -0.71/14 15
>(g8h8
>f4h4 g7f6 g5f6 e7f6 h4f6 ) -0.71/14 15} 20.Rf3 Nd7 {(b8d7 f6h7 h8h7 f4h4 h7g8
>f3h3
>f7f5 h4h7 g8f7 h7h5 g7g6) -0.27/13 355 (b8d7 f6h7 h8h7 f4h4 h7g8 f3h3 f7f5 h4h7
>g8f7
>h7h5 g7g6 ) -0.27/13 355} 21.Nxh7 Kxh7 {(h8h7 f4h4+ h7g8 f3h3 f7f5 h4h7 g8f7
>h7h5
>g7g6 h5h7 f7e8 h7g6) -0.81/14 112 (h8h7 f4h4+ h7g8 f3h3 f7f5 h4h7 g8f7 h7h5 g7g6
>h5h7 f7e8 h7g6 ) -0.81/14 112} 22.Rh3+ Kg8 {(h7g8 f4h4 f7f5 h4h7 g8f7 b3d4 d7c5
>d4f5) -0.91/15 617 (h7g8 f4h4 f7f5 h4h7 g8f7 b3d4 d7c5 d4f5 ) -0.91/15 617}
>23.Rg1 f5
>{(f7f5 e4f5 d7e5) -0.76/13 325 (f7f5 e4f5 d7e5 ) -0.76/13 325} 24.exf5 Ne5
>{(d7e5 b3d4
>d8a5 f4e4 e7d8 f5f6) -1.37/13 693 (d7e5 b3d4 d8a5 f4e4 e7d8 f5f6 ) -1.37/13 693}
>25.Qh4 Kf7 {(g8f7 h4h5+ g7g6 f5g6 f7e6 g6g7 f8g8 h3e3 d8c7 g1d1) -1.49/12 411
>(g8f7
>h4h5+ g7g6 f5g6 f7e6 g6g7 f8g8 h3e3 d8c7 g1d1 ) -1.49/12 411} 26.Qh5+ g6 {(g7g6
>f5g6+
>f7e6 g6g7 f8g8 g1e1) -2.44/12 231 (g7g6 f5g6+ f7e6 g6g7 f8g8 g1e1 ) -2.44/12
>231}
>27.fxg6+ Ke6 {(f7e6 g6g7 f8g8 g1e1) -2.39/11 203 (f7e6 g6g7 f8g8 g1e1 ) -2.39/11
>203}
>28.Nd4+ Kd7 {(e6d7 g6g7 f8g8) -1.57/12 255 (e6d7 g6g7 f8g8 ) -1.57/12 255} 29.g7
>Rg8
>{(f8g8 h3c3 d8b6 g1d1 e5c6 c3b3 b6a7 h5h3 d7e8 d4f5) -1.53/14 374 (f8g8 h3c3
>d8b6 g1d1
>e5c6 c3b3 b6a7 h5h3 d7e8 d4f5 ) -1.53/14 374} 30.Rc3 Qb6 {(d8b6 h5h3+ d7e8 g1d1
>a8d8
>d4e6 e5c6) -2.83/13 281 (d8b6 h5h3+ d7e8 g1d1 a8d8 d4e6 e5c6 ) -2.83/13 281}
>31.Qh3+
>Ke8 {(d7e8 g1d1 a8d8 d4e6 e5c6) -3.99/13 211 (d7e8 g1d1 a8d8 d4e6 e5c6 )
>-3.99/13
>211} 32.Rd1 Rb8 {(a8b8 h3h6 a6a5 h6e6 g8g7 d4f5 g7f7 d1d6) -5.27/13 315 (a8b8
>h3h6
>a6a5 h6e6 g8g7 d4f5 g7f7 d1d6 ) -5.27/13 315} 33.Qe6 Rxg7 {(g8g7 d4f5 g7f7 d1d6
>b6d8
>e6e5 f7f5) -11.53/15 617 (g8g7 d4f5 g7f7 d1d6 b6d8 e6e5 f7f5 ) -11.53/15 617}
>34.Nf5
>Rf7 {(g7f7 d1d6 b6d8 e6e5 f7f5) -11.30/13 127 (g7f7 d1d6 b6d8 e6e5 f7f5 )
>-11.30/13
>127} 35.Rxd6 Qd8 {(b6d8 d6d8+ b8d8) -13.48/16 (b6d8 d6d8+ b8d8 ) -13.48/16}
>36.Qxe5
>Rxf5 {(f7f5 d6d8+ b8d8 e5f5 d8d1 h1g2) -20.16/13 119 (f7f5 d6d8+ b8d8 e5f5 d8d1
>h1g2
>) -20.16/13 119} 37.Rxd8+ Rxd8 {(b8d8 e5f5 d8d1 h1g2 d1d2 g2f1 d2d1) -20.47/13
>27
>(b8d8 e5f5 d8d1 h1g2 d1d2 g2f1 d2d1 ) -20.47/13 27} 38.Qxf5 Rd1+ {(d8d1+ h1g2
>d1d2
>g2h3 d2d6 c3c8) -22.60/12 94 (d8d1+ h1g2 d1d2 g2h3 d2d6 c3c8 ) -22.60/12 94}
>39.Kg2
>Rd2+ {(d1d2+ g2h3 d2d6) -M16/12 76 (d1d2+ g2h3 d2d6 ) -M16/12 76} 40.Kf3 Rd6
>{(d2d6
>g5g6 d6g6 f5c8) -M14/13 181 (d2d6 g5g6 d6g6 f5c8 ) -M14/13 181} 41.g6 Rxg6
>{(d6g6
>f5g6+ e8d8 g6g8 d8d7 g8c8 d7d6 f3e4 e7h4 c3d3) -M12/9 2 (d6g6 f5g6+ e8d8 g6g8
>d8d7
>g8c8 d7d6 f3e4 e7h4 c3d3 ) -M12/9 2} 42.Qxg6+ Kd7 {(e8d7 g6f5+ d7d6 f3f4) -M6/8
>1
>(e8d7 g6f5+ d7d6 f3f4 ) -M6/8 1} 43.Qf5+ Kd6 {(d7d6 c3c5 e7d8 f5e5 d6d7 c5d5)
>-24.54/4 (d7d6 c3c5 e7d8 f5e5 d6d7 c5d5 ) -24.54/4} 44.Ke4 Bd8 {(e7d8 c3d3+ d6c6
>f5d5)
>-M5/5 (e7d8 c3d3+ d6c6 f5d5 ) -M5/5} 45.Qd5+ Ke7 {(d6e7 c3f3 d8b6 f3f7) -M2/3
>(d6e7
>c3f3 d8b6 f3f7 ) -M2/3} 46.Rf3 b5 {(b7b5 f3f7+ e7e8 d5d7+) -M1/2 (b7b5 f3f7+
>e7e8
>d5d7+ ) -M1/2} 47.Rf7+ Ke8 {(e7e8 d5d7+) +M0/1 (e7e8 d5d7+ ) -M0/1} 48.Qd7#
>{Matt}
>{Matt} 1-0
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