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Subject: Re: Man versus Machine?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 07:31:47 06/16/05

Go up one level in this thread


On June 15, 2005 at 09:50:53, Terry McCracken wrote:

>On June 15, 2005 at 03:08:46, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On June 15, 2005 at 01:17:12, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>
>>>On June 15, 2005 at 01:08:47, Tony Nichols wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 15, 2005 at 00:57:05, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 15, 2005 at 00:05:51, Tony Nichols wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 14, 2005 at 22:35:26, William Sorin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On June 14, 2005 at 22:19:29, Mark Ryan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Has this been the wrong metaphor all along?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Years ago, Kasparov predicted that the future of chess was in "Advanced Chess"
>>>>>>>>(people playing chess with computer assistance).  Now the Freestyle Tournament
>>>>>>>>seems to be confirming this prediction.  In the words of Chessbase, " ... we can
>>>>>>>>draw first tentative conclusions. One is that the most powerful chess playing
>>>>>>>>entity on the planet is a GM armed with a computer."
>>>>>>>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2453
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>We are the tool-manufacturing species.  We create the tools, and we shape their
>>>>>>>>purpose.  In Vancouver, the trains in the SkyTrain system have no drivers, but
>>>>>>>>there is a central control room where human beings monitor everything carefully
>>>>>>>>and react to unforeseen emergencies.  The level of human involvement has been
>>>>>>>>reduced, but it is still there; in fact, it has been isolated to a higher level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No matter how strong the chess machines become, will they always be stronger
>>>>>>>>with a GM at the controls?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I wonder then if a 2600 Grandmaster using Fritz could beat any of the Top Ten
>>>>>>>human Grandmasters without computer assistance?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would expect a 2600 GM with chessbase and Fritz to crush any human player
>>>>>>without. Even at the very top many games are decided by tactical mistakes. Also,
>>>>>>   the ability to research an opening at the board would be very useful.
>>>>>>Regards
>>>>>>Tony
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe Kasparov could defeat a 2600 rated player, even with the assistance of
>>>>>a top program and top PC computer, as long as he knows what he's dealing with.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'd like to see such a match, but unfortunately he's retired:(
>>>>>
>>>>>In a sense he was dealing with mutiple GM's when he played Deep Blue, and his
>>>>>loss was in the six game match was a fluke, one we'll never see proven
>>>>>otherwise:(
>>>>>
>>>>>Too Bad,
>>>>> Terry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> His match against Deep Blue was indeed a fluke. Unfortunately, Kasparov would
>>>>have a very hard time against a human/computer team. He is known for
>>>>complications and out calculating his opponent. This would play right into a
>>>>computers strength. He has shown that he is vulnerable in passive positions
>>>>where he can not get the initiative. So, this strategy is not good either. I
>>>>would think that someone like Kramnik or a younger Karpov would have the best
>>>>chances, but I still favor the human/comp team.
>>>>Regards
>>>>Tony
>>>
>>>You underestimate Kasparov, and is noted to be the most computer-like GM that
>>>ever lived!
>>>
>>>If Kasparov was prepared, I think you might be surprised..The reason is if he
>>>handles the tactics, his stategy will be superior.
>>>
>>>Would it be tough? Yes, it would. But the GM at 2600+ may be overconfident and
>>>get hammered!
>>>
>>>Terry
>>
>>I think that you underestimate 2600 players.
>>
>>Kasparov did not win a match against Junior without human help and with human
>>help the machines may play significantly better.
>>
>>Uri
>
>What human help??

My point is that if kasparov failed to win Junior in a match then 2600 together
with Junior can probably beat him.

Uri



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