Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Is WCCC 2005 fair?

Author: Charles Roberson

Date: 09:51:38 06/17/05

Go up one level in this thread


On June 17, 2005 at 08:25:01, Christopher Conkie wrote:

>Know that the winner of the WCCC 2005 will be the best hardware, not the best
>engine.
>
>
>The WCCC will show no insight whatsoever for chess engines abilities while these
>anomalies exist.
>
>The championships are in effect.....meaningless.
>

      First, the winner is not guaranteed to be the best hardware.
      The mult-deacades long history of the WCCC clearly reveals that
      best HW is not guaranteed to win.
         Examples:
                In the late 1990's Shredder won the championship with a
                single proc Pentium 90Mhz machine. It beat a 1000 node
                supper computer and Deep Blue. Also, the P 90 was not the
                HW that Stefan meant to use. His HW was damaged in shipping
                and the P 90 was an old machine sitting in a closet. The best
                spare machine they had.

                In 2002, Hydra did not win. Also, Lambchop faired well and
                did not have endgame tablebases.

     On uniform platform events:
         Such events would eliminate people that don't develop or don't have
       access to that platform. This is most unfair. Example: I believe Tord's
       native platform has been the MAC and he did run into several issues
       that he did not expect in porting to the PC. This happens to nearly
       everybody in porting to other platforms. Thus, even if a developer
       ported to the "event platform", he would be at a considerable
       disadvantage.

     As far as results being "meaningless", this is not true. The point of
     it is not to decide what people should go out and buy for their PC. The
     point is to provide a competition that will all researchers in the field
     to test there efforts.
         Example: In the 1970's, there were people using multiprocessor
          super-computers. From that sprung research in the best ways to
          paralellize MiniMax search algorithms (which are no limited to
          chess or games). Because of this early effort on "Advanced HW",
          we have the multithreaded programs of today that can take advantage
          of the affordable dual-processor machines of today.

           If you doubt the advantage of allowing the use of "Advanced HW" as
           I just stated. I suggest you read some papers on the efforts of
           scientists to create/find an effective and efficient algorithm
           that utilizes multi-proc machines for MiniMax with Alpha/Beta
           prunning. You'll find that the "obvious" and "not so obvious"
           thoughts were quite inefficient. Some of them took 5 processors
           just to get a 2x speedup. With many years of research, the more
           modern ideas came to be where we get a 1.9x speedup with 2 procs.

       Also, these algorithms are quite applicable to other fields of science.
       I do not see why you want to hold back progress in these fields inorder
       to see which program is best on the PC at this single point in time.

       My guess is that you didn't understand the point of the tournament.
       Your statements make sense if the point of the tournament is to find
       the best PC program. But, that's not the point.

        If you wish to find the best PC program, then there are several home
        run uniform platform events with full details on the web.





This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.