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Subject: Re: Programmers: Best direction to further develop Fruit code?

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 15:19:59 06/20/05

Go up one level in this thread


On June 20, 2005 at 16:42:38, Uri Blass wrote:

>On June 20, 2005 at 16:09:53, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On June 20, 2005 at 15:42:41, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On June 20, 2005 at 15:28:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 19, 2005 at 17:58:07, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 19, 2005 at 15:18:33, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 19, 2005 at 02:24:52, Roger D Davis wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since Fruit is just a notch down from Shredder and Fritz, it looks like that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Fruit is lightyears away from Shredder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>something that might play well in 1 0 because it gets instantly 11 or 12 ply,
>>>>>>doesn't mean it is having a chance in some serious time control like 60 in 2
>>>>>>under tournament conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not know if Fruit has problems at long time control(results at 40/40
>>>>>adapted to speed of PIV 2 ghz suggest that it is number 2 after shredder at
>>>>>longer time control than 1 minute per game at least if you use nunn type match)
>>>>>but if it has problems the logical reason that I can see is bugs in the search
>>>>>that prevent it to go deep enough.
>>>>>
>>>>>I already mentioned one bug of extending single replies too much so fruit can
>>>>>solve the famous mate in 30 in 1 seconds and probably cause it to extend often
>>>>>useless lines in games).
>>>>>
>>>>>Fabien wrote that there are bugs in the search that he still had no time to fix
>>>>>so he probably meant that there is more than one bug.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is possible that Fruit is weaker at long time control(not in nunn type games)
>>>>>because of positional learning of shredder but I guess that the part of
>>>>>positional learning can be done by fabien.
>>>>
>>>>There is very limited data, but the results I have seen seem to indicate that
>>>>fruit is even stronger at slower time controls.
>>>
>>>1)I see that I made a mistake in my post
>>>I meant to say that fruit can solve the mate in 30 at depth 1(not in one
>>>second).
>>>
>>>I think that it is wrong and may cause problems espacailly at long time control
>>>because my guess is that these single reply extensions(instead of partial
>>>extensions) increase the branching factor of fruit with no significant benefit.
>>>
>>>2)The data that I see based on reading posts give me no information if fruit is
>>>better at long time control.
>>
>>Did you see the 90 minute plus 30 second contest?
>
>Yes
>
>I saw fruit is leading 4-1 against Shredder9(and fruit is losing the 6th game)
>but there are more games at 40/40 time control at CEGT and in this tournament
>Fruit is only number 3 at this moment after Fritz.
>
>I also saw results when Fruit beated Fritz at blitz
>see http://wbforum.volker-pittlik.name/viewtopic.php?t=2867
>
>Fruit-Fritz 52.5-47.5
>
>I can only say that nothing is clear based on the results.

Of course, I agree with this.  We will need thousands of games before we have a
clear picture.

But I do not see any evidence that fruit is weaker at long time control than
short.  If anything, the evidence leans the other way.

At any rate, after a couple weeks of information gathering, then we will know
very well.



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