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Subject: Re: MTD concept and why PVS is superior

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 16:39:43 06/22/05

Go up one level in this thread


On June 22, 2005 at 17:15:13, Bo Persson wrote:

>On June 22, 2005 at 10:01:12, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On June 21, 2005 at 16:11:50, Bo Persson wrote:
>>
>>>On June 20, 2005 at 08:06:08, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>If at 13 ply the score of other moves is 0.35 or so and from this root move it's
>>>>0.400, then we have a 100 point difference between 0.300 and 0.400.
>>>>
>>>>Now we need possibly a 100 researches to get to 0.400, but at least 2 dozen or
>>>>so. As we will use bounds 0.300 0.301 0.302 0.303 0.304, hoping that the score
>>>>is close to 0.300 of iteration 12 of course.
>>>>
>>>>PVS is far superior in this as we can determine the true bound directly by
>>>>taking the tree of 12 ply search depth. We add 1 ply to it and we already have a
>>>>root score of real close to 0.400 to it. So for the price of a node or 50 using
>>>>hashtables we directly determine a true bound or somethign real close to the
>>>>true bound, where MTD needs 20+ researches for.
>>>>
>>>>Is my point clear now?
>>>
>>>This is the usual Vincent thing - he can't get it to work, so it just doesn't
>>>work.
>>>
>>>Who said you had to add 1 millipawn for each research? You can accellerate the
>>>step (+16, +32, +64, etc), until you step over the target, and then zoom in
>>>again.
>>>
>>>To go from 0.300 to 0.400, my program tries this series:
>>>
>>>0.300 0.316 0.348 0.412 (fail low!) 0.380 0.396 0.404 0.400
>>>
>>>That's eight (8) searches, not 100, not even 20+ !
>>
>>>Bo Persson
>>
>>By not using step 1 initially you remove all advantages that MTD *might* offer.
>
>No.
>
>If the final score would actually be 0.301, I would go
>
>0.300 0.316 0.308 0.304 0.302 0.301
>
>That's 6 null window searches. Not bad.
>
>Of course, if the new score just happened to be 0.316, I would find it really
>fast!
>
>Why optimize for the 0.300 -> 0.301 case? Is that very frequent in your program?
>
>
>Bo Persson


This is a hopeless argument of course.  The main problem I had in fooling with
this was "lazy eval" caused way too many problems.  Don D. suggested a fix that
seemed reasonable later, but you don't want to let lazy eval trick you into
failing the wrong direction just because the eval says <X or >Y and returning a
bound that is too far off...




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