Author: Robin Smith
Date: 00:37:51 06/23/05
Go up one level in this thread
On June 22, 2005 at 16:20:32, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On June 22, 2005 at 13:51:40, Robin Smith wrote: > >>On June 22, 2005 at 03:10:00, Drexel,Michael wrote: >> >>>On June 21, 2005 at 23:00:37, Robin Smith wrote: >>> >>>>On June 21, 2005 at 18:36:34, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 21, 2005 at 16:44:21, Torstein Hall wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 21, 2005 at 15:30:03, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On June 21, 2005 at 14:19:44, Robin Smith wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On June 21, 2005 at 14:11:23, Mark Young wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On June 21, 2005 at 14:04:37, Ted Summers wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>To sum it up " He played a drawish opening in a tactic way. " Not a good idea >>>>>>>>>>when computers are able to hang with the best and proving themself as better >>>>>>>>>>than humans in open tactical positions. However I still think GM Adams can pull >>>>>>>>>>it together and Win or Draw this match. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>[D] r2q1rk1/1pp3pp/p2b4/nP1p1p1b/2PPn3/3B1N1P/P1QN1PP1/1RB1R1K1 b - - 0 17 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Having reached this position, we seemed to be watching the beginning of the end >>>>>>>>>>for Adams in the first game but hopefully not the match. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>C4! was a killer positional shot. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>c4 was a good move, but hardly a "killer". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>It seems clear GM Adams missed this move when he played Na5. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Perhaps Adams miissed it, but it hardly seems "clear", since Black is still OK >>>>>>>>afterwards. His loss happened later. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-Robin >>>>>>>The problem here is that the kingside is already a bit open. One does _not_, as >>>>>>>a human, allow the computer to open _both_ sides of the board in the same game. >>>>>>>It invites a debacle such as this. Of course, he made a couple of tactical >>>>>>>errors around the point where the rook on C8 was hanging, but he was already in >>>>>>>the wrong kind of position... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>All the comps were suggesting the same moves as played by Hydra, so there was no >>>>>>>real surprises from the white side, just black making an error here, an error >>>>>>>there, before long he fell off the rim of the canyon. >>>>>> >>>>>>This is in my view far to general. Black was at least = uptil move 23.Be6 >>>>>>[D]2rq1r1k/6pp/p2bB3/2p1Np1b/3Pn3/7P/P1Q2PP1/1RB1R1K1 b - - 0 23 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Define "equal". Here I am considering the important detail that white is a >>>>>computer, black is a human. In that regard, black is _not_ equal up to move 23. >>>> >>>>By that logic Adams was already much worse after 1.e4 no matter what he did. >>>>Let's face it, Hydra is stronger. Adams will probably be under presure in every >>>>game where he has the black pieces. >>>> >>>>> In fact, I don't believe black is anywhere near equal. >>>> >>>>He is equal unless you use your "considering the important detail that white is >>>>a computer" logic. >>>> >>>>>He isn't lost, but he is far from equal and is at best fighting for a draw. >>>> >>>>>But in an open position. >>>>>And he just has no chance in that kind of position. >>>> >>>>He was under presure, yes. That is a far cry from "has no chance". >>>> >>>>>But I would take white anywhere along the way in that game, as a human playing >>>>>another human. And by the way, any move after the "knight to the rim" move >>>>>finds white better IMHO. >>>> >>>>Your opinion is wrong, unless perhaps you mean that white had a very slight >>>>advantage. That is the norm in chess, by the way. >>>> >>>>>>Adams played 23...Rc7 while 23...cxd4 looks like it holds everything nicely >>>>>>together. >>>>> >>>>>Doesn't quite hold everything nicely together. The comps were at about +1 here >>>>>already, went to +1.5 on the Rc7 move. >>>> >>>>Maybe Craqfty sees +1, but the top programs don't see anything near +1 until >>>>_after_ Rc7. Before Rc7 black was fine. >>> >>>You don´t have a clue. >> >>And you do? :-) >> >>>It´s always easy to sacrifice the exchange of others. In order to play this >>>sacrifice you have to calculate correctly some very concrete lines. >> >>Of course. That is obvious and I never said otherwise. All I said was that black >>is OK if he plays cxd4 instead of Rc7. >> >>>For example 24.Bxc8 Bxe5 ( The ending after 24...Qxc8 is very difficult to play >>>for black) 25.Bxf5 d3 24.Qc6 d2 27.Bxd2 Nxd2 28.Rxe5 Nxb1 29.Bxb1 Qd1+ 30.Kh2 >>>Qxb1 31.Qd6 Kg8 32.Rxh5 Qxa2 = and the position after 25.Qxc8 Qf6 26.Qc4 Qxe5 >>>27.g3 is very difficult to play for black. >>> >>>Definitely not the typ of position you want to play against a computer. >> >>I agreed this is not the type of position a human wants to be in in another >>post. Did you read it before you shot off your mouth? >> >>>Therefore Adams Rc7 is a completely understandable decision. >> >>I agree that Adams decision was understandable. I never said otherwise. It was >>also a mistake, that's all; an understandable mistake. I have always agreed that >>by this point Adams was in the type of position that is hard for a human to >>play. That does not mean he made mistakes earlier. It is easier for white to >>create open, messy positions that are hard for a human to play than it is for >>black to prevent it, so just because it happens does not mean Adams made >>mistakes prior to getting into such a position. Hyrda won because Hydra played >>well, not because Adams "blundered" or made "outright stupid" choices or "GM >>Adams missed this move". I think it is disrespectful to GM Adams when people say >>such things, especially since Adams _didn't_ blunder. >> >>-Robin > > >I'll say it again. You can throw high, fast and outside to a big hitter, and >when he slaps it over the fence, you can say "good shot". Or you can say "lousy >pitch." In this game, it was a lousy pitch by Adams. If he chooses to avoid >anti-computer type chess, that's fine, and no it isn't a blunder. Then why in http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?432636 did you say "He was guilty of a different type of blunder. Namely of playing 1. ... e5 against the computer." Was it a blunder or not? Have you changed your position so that now we agree? -Robin >But it _is_ a >mistake. You play to your opponent's weaknesses, not to his strength, for max >advantage. > > > > > >> >>>Michael >>> >>> >>>> >>>>>But then the next few moves were mostly >>>>>bad by black, turning this into a debacle. But if there were not so many open >>>>>files, open diagonals, etc, black wouldn't have had to be worrying about tactics >>>>>all over the board. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> One line could be 23...cxd4 24.Qxc8 Qf6 25.Qc4 Qxe5 26.Qa5 and black >>>>>>looks OK to me. >>>>> >>>>>But white looks better to me there. Maybe not "winning better" but >>>>>"significantly better". >>>> >>>>Try "very slightly better". Adams played well until Rc7. Hydra is very strong >>>>and kept putting the presure on and finally Adams made a mistake. >>>> >>>>-Robin
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