Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Fruit 2.1: an eye-opener?

Author: Djordje Vidanovic

Date: 10:18:06 07/11/05

Go up one level in this thread


On July 10, 2005 at 21:38:58, Lin Harper wrote:

>
>
>  Hi Djordje,
>   In addition to the interesting info in this thread, there are just a couple
>of things I would like to add.
>   In the case of search depth versus knowledge, you quite rightly pointed out
>that search depth *is* knowledge. Since the basic problem of a chess programmer
>is correct allocation of limited processing capacity, perhaps in the case of
>Fruit2.1, the programmer has succeeded in his effort to include only vital, not
>unnecessary knowledge, so that the released capacity has driven the search
>another ply, or at least part of a ply. This applies to Shredder too, of course.
>  I remember some time ago the author of Hiarcs saying that he had vastly
>increased the knowledge in his new version. This could only have come at the
>expense of search depth, and so was a mistake.
>  Just one other point re: Fruit2.1. I could'nt help notice that Fruit2.1 has a
>preference for knights over bishops. This I noticed over a series of too many
>games played on Arena for it to be random. I'm only guessing, but could it be
>that the knight, handled correctly, is a stronger piece overall than a bishop?
>And that this has not been recognized in the chess community until now simply
>because it has been impossible to search deep enough to demonstrate? Food for
>thought.
>  all the best
>  Lin


Hi Lin,

nice to hear from you, as always. Yes, Fruit might be the currently optimal way
to conduct search, perhaps even more so than any other program.  I guess that
Fabien will have to modify it a little to make it even stronger.  Alas, there
may be a rub there, as any addition to the optimal search is dangerous and may
upset the overall strength.

Chess System Tal comes to my mind as the knowledge-laden program that had
promise.  However, it appears now that only increased depth and better search
point the way to go.  CST would be decimated in its match with Fruit, as,
unfortunately, is the case with any knowledgeable program, no matter how
attractive its playing style may be.

Simulating human chess knowledge is not the way chess programming should go, it
slows down the search so much so that such programs overlook some important
tactics.

I have noticed Fruit's preference of knights over bishops too, as well as its
occasional tendency to sac a light piece for a couple of passer pawns.  I have
also noticed that it undervalues rooks...  These could be interesting pointers
for Fabien...

Thanks.


Djordje



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.