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Subject: Re: Republica Argentina Chess Masters (Shredder)

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 22:08:35 07/26/05

Go up one level in this thread


On July 26, 2005 at 20:58:17, Rick Hagen wrote:

>On July 26, 2005 at 10:03:17, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On July 26, 2005 at 01:33:24, Rick Hagen wrote:
>>
>>>On July 26, 2005 at 01:09:27, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 25, 2005 at 08:32:32, Rick Hagen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 25, 2005 at 03:34:13, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 24, 2005 at 21:10:22, Rick Hagen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>[...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>The "critical" position seems to be:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>[D]r1bq1rk1/2p1n1bn/1p1p4/pP1Pp1pp/P1B1Pp2/2NQ1P2/1BPN2PP/R3R1K1 w - - 0 21
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It actually looks Shredder plays with a plan here.
>>>>>>>Bringing it's King to the Q-side, and counter-attacking on the K-side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not to me
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You deny it_looks_like a plan?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This was certainly just a matter of King safety evaluation and not a plan.
>>>
>>>It_looks_like a plan.
>>
>>Not to me. This was just necessary to avoid a crushing Kingside attack.
>
>Watch the moves:
>21.Kf2 22.Rh1 23. Raf1 24.Ke1 25.Kd1 26.Kc1 27.Nd1 28.Thg1 29.Nf2
>To avoid a K-side attack and bring the King to the Q-side followed by moving the
>peaces to the K-side "Looks" like a plan to me.
>Let's agree to disagree.
>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>The critical position is later in the game.
>>>>>>It seems to me that black is better after shredder's plan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Here is Shredder's opinion
>>>>>[...]
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, objectively...black is better.
>>>>>But.. it is an open position,
>>>>
>>>>Nonsense, this is not an open position at all.
>>>
>>>[D]2b2r2/2p2rkn/1p1p4/pP1Pp1q1/P3P1N1/2Q2P2/2P1B2N/1K5R b - - 0 1
>>>
>>>
>>>This position is what we're talking about...
>>
>>Nonsense, this is not the position we are talking about.
>>The position before Kf2 was posted and discussed.
>
>No!
>Follow the thread and look at Uri's responce.
>Then you know that_this_is the position we're talking about.
>It seems pretty obvious that the pos. before and including Kf2 is closed.

This position is not relevant at all. Black was completely lost after the simple
46...Bxg4. I don´t need an engine for that. The move is pretty obvious. The top
engines Shreddder and  Fritz were useless anyway in this position as they don´t
have a clue.

>>
>>The one I had posted occured later in the game. It was almost completely closed.
>>Only black had a chance to make progress. There was no counter attack for white
>>at all.
>>
>>Anyone can see that it was black who played for the win in this game. He
>>certainly could have easily drawn this game by simply doing nothing but he had a
>>pretty overwhelming position. No wonder since Shredder played horrible in the
>>early middle game. Im referring to the ridiculous Qd2,Qd3,Qe3,Qd3 maneuver
>>followed by b5.
>>
>>His play for a win was justified but he failed miserably.
>>The mistakes 46...g2? (46...Bxg4 is clearly better for black) and 48...Rh8+?
>>costed him the game.
>>
>>Michael
>
>The point is: black player is human, humans make mistakes in open positions.
>Against computers this becomes very apparent.
>You can give all the variations you want (engine output no doubt), but in open
>positions humans hardly stand a chance.

Yeah, the "Humans make mistakes in open positions" Nonsense again...
This is called "Totschlagargument" in Germany. I don´t know what the English
expression is. Killer argument??

Any normal game has eventually one or two open files. That doesn´t mean a human
can´t play it.

Michael

>
>RickH
>
>
>>>
>>>RickH
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Michael
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>RickH
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri



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