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Subject: Re: Republica Argentina Chess Masters (Shredder)

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 22:09:34 07/26/05

Go up one level in this thread


On July 27, 2005 at 01:08:35, Drexel,Michael wrote:

>On July 26, 2005 at 20:58:17, Rick Hagen wrote:
>
>>On July 26, 2005 at 10:03:17, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>>>On July 26, 2005 at 01:33:24, Rick Hagen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 26, 2005 at 01:09:27, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 25, 2005 at 08:32:32, Rick Hagen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 25, 2005 at 03:34:13, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On July 24, 2005 at 21:10:22, Rick Hagen wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The "critical" position seems to be:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>[D]r1bq1rk1/2p1n1bn/1p1p4/pP1Pp1pp/P1B1Pp2/2NQ1P2/1BPN2PP/R3R1K1 w - - 0 21
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It actually looks Shredder plays with a plan here.
>>>>>>>>Bringing it's King to the Q-side, and counter-attacking on the K-side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not to me
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You deny it_looks_like a plan?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>This was certainly just a matter of King safety evaluation and not a plan.
>>>>
>>>>It_looks_like a plan.
>>>
>>>Not to me. This was just necessary to avoid a crushing Kingside attack.
>>
>>Watch the moves:
>>21.Kf2 22.Rh1 23. Raf1 24.Ke1 25.Kd1 26.Kc1 27.Nd1 28.Thg1 29.Nf2
>>To avoid a K-side attack and bring the King to the Q-side followed by moving the
>>peaces to the K-side "Looks" like a plan to me.
>>Let's agree to disagree.
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>The critical position is later in the game.
>>>>>>>It seems to me that black is better after shredder's plan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here is Shredder's opinion
>>>>>>[...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, objectively...black is better.
>>>>>>But.. it is an open position,
>>>>>
>>>>>Nonsense, this is not an open position at all.
>>>>
>>>>[D]2b2r2/2p2rkn/1p1p4/pP1Pp1q1/P3P1N1/2Q2P2/2P1B2N/1K5R b - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This position is what we're talking about...
>>>
>>>Nonsense, this is not the position we are talking about.
>>>The position before Kf2 was posted and discussed.
>>
>>No!
>>Follow the thread and look at Uri's responce.
>>Then you know that_this_is the position we're talking about.
>>It seems pretty obvious that the pos. before and including Kf2 is closed.
>
>This position is not relevant at all.

White was completely lost after the simple


>46...Bxg4. I don´t need an engine for that. The move is pretty obvious. The top
>engines Shreddder and  Fritz were useless anyway in this position as they don´t
>have a clue.
>
>>>
>>>The one I had posted occured later in the game. It was almost completely closed.
>>>Only black had a chance to make progress. There was no counter attack for white
>>>at all.
>>>
>>>Anyone can see that it was black who played for the win in this game. He
>>>certainly could have easily drawn this game by simply doing nothing but he had a
>>>pretty overwhelming position. No wonder since Shredder played horrible in the
>>>early middle game. Im referring to the ridiculous Qd2,Qd3,Qe3,Qd3 maneuver
>>>followed by b5.
>>>
>>>His play for a win was justified but he failed miserably.
>>>The mistakes 46...g2? (46...Bxg4 is clearly better for black) and 48...Rh8+?
>>>costed him the game.
>>>
>>>Michael
>>
>>The point is: black player is human, humans make mistakes in open positions.
>>Against computers this becomes very apparent.
>>You can give all the variations you want (engine output no doubt), but in open
>>positions humans hardly stand a chance.
>
>Yeah, the "Humans make mistakes in open positions" Nonsense again...
>This is called "Totschlagargument" in Germany. I don´t know what the English
>expression is. Killer argument??
>
>Any normal game has eventually one or two open files. That doesn´t mean a human
>can´t play it.
>
>Michael
>
>>
>>RickH
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>RickH
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Michael
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>RickH
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri



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