Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:00:30 07/27/05
Go up one level in this thread
On July 27, 2005 at 10:28:55, Reinhard Scharnagl wrote: >On July 27, 2005 at 09:42:55, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On July 27, 2005 at 03:42:05, Reinhard Scharnagl wrote: >>>But when the situation is not changing (e.g. by the Chess960 WNCA to publish >>>quality concepts for Chess960 representations in FEN, PGN and GUI gestures) I >>>will work on other ideas like Go programming etc.. >>> >>>Reinhard. > >Hi Uri, Hi Reinhard, > >>It is your decision but I do not understand how notation disagreement(of things >>like how to encode castling) can convince people not to work on chess960. > >well, because I seem to be unable to communicate my thoughts. Even you obviously >did not get the point. It is not a question of not agreeing to something of a >matter of taste, but a question of being compatible or not. > >>As far as I understand there is already a tool to translate Shredder's notation >>to your notation and the opposite(see >>http://www.volker-pittlik.name/wbforum/viewtopic.php?t=3135). > >First, why not integrate that tool inside of Shredder? I agree that it may be a good idea if Stefan extends shredder to support both Shredder's notation and X fen notation. I did not ask stefan about it so I do not know if he agree to that idea. > >Second, the "Converter" cannot be bidirectional, because the FEN Shredder has >chosen simply is incompatible. Try it with SP-518 created in Shredder and with >the classic starting array, too. > >>I see no reason that protocol will not allow every program to choose between >>X-Fen and Shredder's Fen in the same way that arena allows both UCI engines and >>winboard engines to play inside it inspite of the fact that they are using a >>different protocol. > >You focus that problem on a family of applications sharing to be incompatible. >Thus you cannot see the problem. > >Let me show some examples: > >Take a Chess960 game notation from BrainKing as PGN: > >[Event "Casual Game"] >[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"] >[Date "2005.01.29"] >[Round "?"] >[White "tangram"] >[Black "lukulus"] >[Result "0-1"] >[SetUp "1"] >[FEN "rnbkrqnb/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBKRQNB w KQkq - 0 1"] > >1. g3 g6 2. f4 d6 3. d3 Nh6 4. Nc3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Bd7 6. e4 O-O-O 7. Be3 f5 >8. exf5 Nxf5 9. Bf2 e5 10. fxe5 Nxe5 11. Nxe5 Bxe5 12. Bxa7 Qg7 13. O-O-O Bxc3 >14. bxc3 Qxc3 15. Rxe8 Rxe8 16. Be4 Qa3+ 0-1 > >This notation is using the X-FEN as documented and used by pioneer applications >since years. But Shredder (actually) is not able to understand it. Such things >happen with existing online servers, databases, PGN viewers etc. ... If I understand correctly there is already a converter to convert this pgn to pgn that shredder understands. > >Another example: take the 18 so called pseudo FRC positions (including the >traditional chess starting array) 414, 430, 446, 454, 460, 461, 502, 508, 509, >518, 524, 525, 532, 533, 548, 549, 629, 693 and select e.g. 502. > >This will have a FEN "rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w KQkq - 0 1", >but Shredder has "rqbnkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RQBNKBNR w HAha -". It is easy to detect it and convert from FEN of shredder to the normal FEN in these cases. Note that I see no problem with translating castling from one notation to another notation. The only problem that I see is with FEN in cases that one of the rook already moved and both rooks are in the same side of the king(maybe it was already discussed and I did not follow the discussions but here is example of the problem. Take the following position [D]4k3/8/8/8/8/8/8/RR2K3 w Q - 0 1 In normal chess it is clear that white can castle with the rook at a1. In FRC it is not clear if the rook moved to b1 or to a1 or if white promoted a rook so it is not clear if white can castle with the a rook or with the b rook. Uri
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