Author: Arturo Ochoa
Date: 18:06:12 08/06/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 06, 2005 at 19:43:46, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 06, 2005 at 14:22:30, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On August 06, 2005 at 13:44:50, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On August 06, 2005 at 09:19:48, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>> >>>>On August 06, 2005 at 03:07:59, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 20:20:57, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 17:42:17, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 14:40:53, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 12:04:43, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 11:40:26, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 11:03:10, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 07:40:55, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 13:38:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 07:49:10, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 07:15:02, Engin Üstün wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what is about the intelligence of the program? i mean the knowledge of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>program ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well the competition in that respect has been closed already, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>as diep has more chessevaluation knowledge than any other program. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>That ought to be worth a "post of the year" award. "the competition is closed". >>>>>>>>>>>>> :) Just like the question "can a cluster be used to play chess?" The answer >>>>>>>>>>>>>was (at first) "No, I can proof that the latencies are too high and the speedup >>>>>>>>>>>>>can't be > 1.0". It was later "yes, everyone else has tried and failed, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>Diep can use a cluster now." >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>that gets _so_ old to continually read such crap. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Why is it that the program "with more chessevaluation knowledge than any other >>>>>>>>>>>>>program" can't win a major tournament with the regularity of the inferior >>>>>>>>>>>>>programs like Shredder and Junior? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Go figure... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Are you suggesting that Shredder has less evaluation knowledge than Crafty? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Go away. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>No >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Bob Hyatt never said that Crafty has more knowledge. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder has *way* more than you realize. >>>>>>>>>>>>Junior9 has way way more knowledge than older versions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>The proof is obvious that chessknowledge works. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Bob never said that chess knowledge does not work. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>By the way, has your 2000 line evaluation function "enough to get world >>>>>>>>>>champion" already finished? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Vincent >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No but I think that fruit's evaluation with better search and good book is >>>>>>>>>enough to win the world championship. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>How many lines are in fruit2.1's evaluation? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Fruit eval.cpp has a less than 2000 lines >>>>>>>>>There are functions like piece_attack_king not in eval.cpp but on the other >>>>>>>>>side there are empty lines and asserts and comments in eval.cpp so I am not sure >>>>>>>>>if Fruit's evaluation is more than 2000 lines. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>What happened to all your complaining in the 2004 world championship about >>>>>>>>others having superior hardware (the reason you gave why Movei lost from Diep, >>>>>>>>remember?). Fruit is single cpu. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I admit that Fruit is simply better than Movei. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>About the game against Diep the tactical mistake that costed the game is a >>>>>>>mistake that movei could avoid with better hardware. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I am not sure what result Movei could do with better hardware against Diep but >>>>>>>Diep could not win easily. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Crafty is quad opteron dual core, so is diep (quad opteron dual core 1.8Ghz >>>>>>>>sponsor: www.hotels.nl ), shredder quad opteron dual core 2.2Ghz minimum >>>>>>>>(transtec) and probably Junior (HP) be too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Did you forget all your "superior hardware always wins" complaints in 2004? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Vincent >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I do not say that better hardware always win but I am almost sure that Movei >>>>>>>could score better with better hardware(for example it had good chances for a >>>>>>>draw against Crafty and in WBEC Movei beated Crafty in the match between them) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I also think that there are good chances that movei could avoid the loss against >>>>>>>isichess with better hardware and the mistake that costed it the game could be >>>>>>>prevented with searching one ply deeper. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Uri >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>There are two facts: Diep beated you in WCC2004 and Zappa beated you in CCT7 in >>>>>>a easy way. The rest is mere cheap excuses typical from your Pre-WCCC frustrated >>>>>>non participation. >>>>>> >>>>>>I only read this message. Not time to argue your nonsense for now. >>>>>> >>>>>>Arturo. >>>>>> >>>>>>PD: I was the booker for this engines in those Tournaments. >>>>> >>>>>I responded to vincent and I did not talk about the game against zappa and I do >>>>>not understand why you mention it. >>>>> >>>>>I also wrote nothing against you in my posts. >>>>>It is a fact that Movei could avoid the losing mistake with searching one ply >>>>>deeper against diep and that better hardware could help it to get one ply deeper >>>>>in the relevant position(probably hardware that is 1.5 times faster was enough >>>>>for it). >>>>>It is not something personal against you. >>>> >>>>It is not a fact because It did not happen. >>>> >>>>The fact is Movei made an awful mistake. Sooner or later it would make other >>>>mistake like this, so the result was going to be the same thing. >>> >>>It is possible that you are right that later it could make another losing >>>mistake and I do not know it. >>> >>>It is a fact that when I analyzed the game I found that movei could play a >>>better move with searching one ply deeper because analyzing the game later is >>>something that happened. >>> >>>Uri >> >>You probably didn't see it, but i didn't comment in the idiocy you wrote about >>the Movei-Diep game. >> >>Any other move still loses you the game however. >> >>The fact is you just complained about hardware at the time. Now for the 2005 >>world champ suddenly hardware is not relevant. > >I did not say that it is not relevant and I do not expect fruit to win the >title. > >I said that it is better than Movei. > A lot better. >> >>You did not explain that weird logic. >> >>To explain it in a way a child understands: >> >>It is not logic to say in 2004 that bigger hardware would have solved everything >>for you and that it was the only reason for you to lose, > >I did not say that it could solve everything for me but it could help me to get >more points. > >Movei was never strong enough to win WCCC. Thank you. You give me again the reason about Movei making all kind of mistakes later. > >>whereas now you say Fruit makes a chance for world champion title despite >>that it is at a single cpu and many others are 4 to 8 cores. > >I think that the probability of Fruit2.1 to win the title is small > >Shredder,Junior and Zappa that support more than one processor have better >chances and Fruit is an easy target to prepare because Fruit2.1 is free and I >understood that Fabien did not work on improving it before WCCC and he said that >he took a break from chess programming after releasing Fruit2.1 so no big >improvement from Fruit2.1 is expected in WCCC(big improvement from Fruit2.1 will >probably happen only later). The probability compared to Movei is a lot big. > >> >>It is your turn to explain your logics. >> >>For the other readers, note that i would be happy if Fruit wins the world title; >>it tends to get predictable if each year junior or shredder wins. >> >>Vincent > >Note that my guess was that zappa is going to win the title. > >Uri Why not the other participants? Based on what you supposed that? This is the typical Blah-Blah supposition before WCC2005?!!! :)))
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