Author: Uri Blass
Date: 20:57:41 08/06/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 06, 2005 at 21:06:12, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >On August 06, 2005 at 19:43:46, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 06, 2005 at 14:22:30, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On August 06, 2005 at 13:44:50, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On August 06, 2005 at 09:19:48, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 06, 2005 at 03:07:59, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 20:20:57, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 17:42:17, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 14:40:53, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 12:04:43, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 11:40:26, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 11:03:10, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 07:40:55, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 13:38:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 07:49:10, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 07:15:02, Engin Üstün wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what is about the intelligence of the program? i mean the knowledge of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>program ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well the competition in that respect has been closed already, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as diep has more chessevaluation knowledge than any other program. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>That ought to be worth a "post of the year" award. "the competition is closed". >>>>>>>>>>>>>> :) Just like the question "can a cluster be used to play chess?" The answer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>was (at first) "No, I can proof that the latencies are too high and the speedup >>>>>>>>>>>>>>can't be > 1.0". It was later "yes, everyone else has tried and failed, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Diep can use a cluster now." >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>that gets _so_ old to continually read such crap. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why is it that the program "with more chessevaluation knowledge than any other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>program" can't win a major tournament with the regularity of the inferior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>programs like Shredder and Junior? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go figure... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you suggesting that Shredder has less evaluation knowledge than Crafty? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Go away. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>No >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Bob Hyatt never said that Crafty has more knowledge. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder has *way* more than you realize. >>>>>>>>>>>>>Junior9 has way way more knowledge than older versions. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>The proof is obvious that chessknowledge works. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Bob never said that chess knowledge does not work. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>By the way, has your 2000 line evaluation function "enough to get world >>>>>>>>>>>champion" already finished? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Vincent >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>No but I think that fruit's evaluation with better search and good book is >>>>>>>>>>enough to win the world championship. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>How many lines are in fruit2.1's evaluation? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Fruit eval.cpp has a less than 2000 lines >>>>>>>>>>There are functions like piece_attack_king not in eval.cpp but on the other >>>>>>>>>>side there are empty lines and asserts and comments in eval.cpp so I am not sure >>>>>>>>>>if Fruit's evaluation is more than 2000 lines. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>What happened to all your complaining in the 2004 world championship about >>>>>>>>>others having superior hardware (the reason you gave why Movei lost from Diep, >>>>>>>>>remember?). Fruit is single cpu. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I admit that Fruit is simply better than Movei. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>About the game against Diep the tactical mistake that costed the game is a >>>>>>>>mistake that movei could avoid with better hardware. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I am not sure what result Movei could do with better hardware against Diep but >>>>>>>>Diep could not win easily. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Crafty is quad opteron dual core, so is diep (quad opteron dual core 1.8Ghz >>>>>>>>>sponsor: www.hotels.nl ), shredder quad opteron dual core 2.2Ghz minimum >>>>>>>>>(transtec) and probably Junior (HP) be too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Did you forget all your "superior hardware always wins" complaints in 2004? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Vincent >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I do not say that better hardware always win but I am almost sure that Movei >>>>>>>>could score better with better hardware(for example it had good chances for a >>>>>>>>draw against Crafty and in WBEC Movei beated Crafty in the match between them) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I also think that there are good chances that movei could avoid the loss against >>>>>>>>isichess with better hardware and the mistake that costed it the game could be >>>>>>>>prevented with searching one ply deeper. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>There are two facts: Diep beated you in WCC2004 and Zappa beated you in CCT7 in >>>>>>>a easy way. The rest is mere cheap excuses typical from your Pre-WCCC frustrated >>>>>>>non participation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I only read this message. Not time to argue your nonsense for now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Arturo. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>PD: I was the booker for this engines in those Tournaments. >>>>>> >>>>>>I responded to vincent and I did not talk about the game against zappa and I do >>>>>>not understand why you mention it. >>>>>> >>>>>>I also wrote nothing against you in my posts. >>>>>>It is a fact that Movei could avoid the losing mistake with searching one ply >>>>>>deeper against diep and that better hardware could help it to get one ply deeper >>>>>>in the relevant position(probably hardware that is 1.5 times faster was enough >>>>>>for it). >>>>>>It is not something personal against you. >>>>> >>>>>It is not a fact because It did not happen. >>>>> >>>>>The fact is Movei made an awful mistake. Sooner or later it would make other >>>>>mistake like this, so the result was going to be the same thing. >>>> >>>>It is possible that you are right that later it could make another losing >>>>mistake and I do not know it. >>>> >>>>It is a fact that when I analyzed the game I found that movei could play a >>>>better move with searching one ply deeper because analyzing the game later is >>>>something that happened. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>You probably didn't see it, but i didn't comment in the idiocy you wrote about >>>the Movei-Diep game. >>> >>>Any other move still loses you the game however. >>> >>>The fact is you just complained about hardware at the time. Now for the 2005 >>>world champ suddenly hardware is not relevant. >> >>I did not say that it is not relevant and I do not expect fruit to win the >>title. >> >>I said that it is better than Movei. >> > >A lot better. > >>> >>>You did not explain that weird logic. >>> >>>To explain it in a way a child understands: >>> >>>It is not logic to say in 2004 that bigger hardware would have solved everything >>>for you and that it was the only reason for you to lose, >> >>I did not say that it could solve everything for me but it could help me to get >>more points. >> >>Movei was never strong enough to win WCCC. > >Thank you. You give me again the reason about Movei making all kind of mistakes >later. > >> >>>whereas now you say Fruit makes a chance for world champion title despite >>>that it is at a single cpu and many others are 4 to 8 cores. >> >>I think that the probability of Fruit2.1 to win the title is small >> >>Shredder,Junior and Zappa that support more than one processor have better >>chances and Fruit is an easy target to prepare because Fruit2.1 is free and I >>understood that Fabien did not work on improving it before WCCC and he said that >>he took a break from chess programming after releasing Fruit2.1 so no big >>improvement from Fruit2.1 is expected in WCCC(big improvement from Fruit2.1 will >>probably happen only later). > >The probability compared to Movei is a lot big. > >> >>> >>>It is your turn to explain your logics. >>> >>>For the other readers, note that i would be happy if Fruit wins the world title; >>>it tends to get predictable if each year junior or shredder wins. >>> >>>Vincent >> >>Note that my guess was that zappa is going to win the title. >> >>Uri > >Why not the other participants? Based on what you supposed that? This is the >typical Blah-Blah supposition before WCC2005?!!! :))) I know that Zappa already won the CCT title and I know that zappa surprised in the past by almost winning CCT with a random book. I guess that you already did some preperations against specific opponents like you did against Pharaon in the past and I do not expect always Shredder and Junior to win the title. Uri
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