Author: Arturo Ochoa
Date: 03:02:06 08/07/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 06, 2005 at 23:57:41, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 06, 2005 at 21:06:12, Arturo Ochoa wrote: > >>On August 06, 2005 at 19:43:46, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On August 06, 2005 at 14:22:30, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On August 06, 2005 at 13:44:50, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 06, 2005 at 09:19:48, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 06, 2005 at 03:07:59, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 20:20:57, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 17:42:17, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 14:40:53, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 12:04:43, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 11:40:26, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 11:03:10, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 07:40:55, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 13:38:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 07:49:10, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 07:15:02, Engin Üstün wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what is about the intelligence of the program? i mean the knowledge of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>program ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well the competition in that respect has been closed already, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as diep has more chessevaluation knowledge than any other program. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That ought to be worth a "post of the year" award. "the competition is closed". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :) Just like the question "can a cluster be used to play chess?" The answer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>was (at first) "No, I can proof that the latencies are too high and the speedup >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>can't be > 1.0". It was later "yes, everyone else has tried and failed, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Diep can use a cluster now." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that gets _so_ old to continually read such crap. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why is it that the program "with more chessevaluation knowledge than any other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>program" can't win a major tournament with the regularity of the inferior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>programs like Shredder and Junior? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go figure... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you suggesting that Shredder has less evaluation knowledge than Crafty? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go away. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>No >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob Hyatt never said that Crafty has more knowledge. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder has *way* more than you realize. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Junior9 has way way more knowledge than older versions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>The proof is obvious that chessknowledge works. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob never said that chess knowledge does not work. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>By the way, has your 2000 line evaluation function "enough to get world >>>>>>>>>>>>champion" already finished? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Vincent >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>No but I think that fruit's evaluation with better search and good book is >>>>>>>>>>>enough to win the world championship. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>How many lines are in fruit2.1's evaluation? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Fruit eval.cpp has a less than 2000 lines >>>>>>>>>>>There are functions like piece_attack_king not in eval.cpp but on the other >>>>>>>>>>>side there are empty lines and asserts and comments in eval.cpp so I am not sure >>>>>>>>>>>if Fruit's evaluation is more than 2000 lines. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>What happened to all your complaining in the 2004 world championship about >>>>>>>>>>others having superior hardware (the reason you gave why Movei lost from Diep, >>>>>>>>>>remember?). Fruit is single cpu. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I admit that Fruit is simply better than Movei. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>About the game against Diep the tactical mistake that costed the game is a >>>>>>>>>mistake that movei could avoid with better hardware. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I am not sure what result Movei could do with better hardware against Diep but >>>>>>>>>Diep could not win easily. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Crafty is quad opteron dual core, so is diep (quad opteron dual core 1.8Ghz >>>>>>>>>>sponsor: www.hotels.nl ), shredder quad opteron dual core 2.2Ghz minimum >>>>>>>>>>(transtec) and probably Junior (HP) be too. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Did you forget all your "superior hardware always wins" complaints in 2004? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Vincent >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I do not say that better hardware always win but I am almost sure that Movei >>>>>>>>>could score better with better hardware(for example it had good chances for a >>>>>>>>>draw against Crafty and in WBEC Movei beated Crafty in the match between them) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I also think that there are good chances that movei could avoid the loss against >>>>>>>>>isichess with better hardware and the mistake that costed it the game could be >>>>>>>>>prevented with searching one ply deeper. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>There are two facts: Diep beated you in WCC2004 and Zappa beated you in CCT7 in >>>>>>>>a easy way. The rest is mere cheap excuses typical from your Pre-WCCC frustrated >>>>>>>>non participation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I only read this message. Not time to argue your nonsense for now. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Arturo. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>PD: I was the booker for this engines in those Tournaments. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I responded to vincent and I did not talk about the game against zappa and I do >>>>>>>not understand why you mention it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I also wrote nothing against you in my posts. >>>>>>>It is a fact that Movei could avoid the losing mistake with searching one ply >>>>>>>deeper against diep and that better hardware could help it to get one ply deeper >>>>>>>in the relevant position(probably hardware that is 1.5 times faster was enough >>>>>>>for it). >>>>>>>It is not something personal against you. >>>>>> >>>>>>It is not a fact because It did not happen. >>>>>> >>>>>>The fact is Movei made an awful mistake. Sooner or later it would make other >>>>>>mistake like this, so the result was going to be the same thing. >>>>> >>>>>It is possible that you are right that later it could make another losing >>>>>mistake and I do not know it. >>>>> >>>>>It is a fact that when I analyzed the game I found that movei could play a >>>>>better move with searching one ply deeper because analyzing the game later is >>>>>something that happened. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>> >>>>You probably didn't see it, but i didn't comment in the idiocy you wrote about >>>>the Movei-Diep game. >>>> >>>>Any other move still loses you the game however. >>>> >>>>The fact is you just complained about hardware at the time. Now for the 2005 >>>>world champ suddenly hardware is not relevant. >>> >>>I did not say that it is not relevant and I do not expect fruit to win the >>>title. >>> >>>I said that it is better than Movei. >>> >> >>A lot better. >> >>>> >>>>You did not explain that weird logic. >>>> >>>>To explain it in a way a child understands: >>>> >>>>It is not logic to say in 2004 that bigger hardware would have solved everything >>>>for you and that it was the only reason for you to lose, >>> >>>I did not say that it could solve everything for me but it could help me to get >>>more points. >>> >>>Movei was never strong enough to win WCCC. >> >>Thank you. You give me again the reason about Movei making all kind of mistakes >>later. >> >>> >>>>whereas now you say Fruit makes a chance for world champion title despite >>>>that it is at a single cpu and many others are 4 to 8 cores. >>> >>>I think that the probability of Fruit2.1 to win the title is small >>> >>>Shredder,Junior and Zappa that support more than one processor have better >>>chances and Fruit is an easy target to prepare because Fruit2.1 is free and I >>>understood that Fabien did not work on improving it before WCCC and he said that >>>he took a break from chess programming after releasing Fruit2.1 so no big >>>improvement from Fruit2.1 is expected in WCCC(big improvement from Fruit2.1 will >>>probably happen only later). >> >>The probability compared to Movei is a lot big. >> >>> >>>> >>>>It is your turn to explain your logics. >>>> >>>>For the other readers, note that i would be happy if Fruit wins the world title; >>>>it tends to get predictable if each year junior or shredder wins. >>>> >>>>Vincent >>> >>>Note that my guess was that zappa is going to win the title. >>> >>>Uri >> >>Why not the other participants? Based on what you supposed that? This is the >>typical Blah-Blah supposition before WCC2005?!!! :))) > >I know that Zappa already won the CCT title and I know that zappa surprised in >the past by almost winning CCT with a random book. > >I guess that you already did some preperations against specific opponents like >you did against Pharaon in the past and I do not expect always Shredder and >Junior to win the title. > >Uri Correction: The Zappa Book for CCT was not _random_.
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