Author: Uri Blass
Date: 07:18:45 08/07/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 07, 2005 at 06:02:06, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >On August 06, 2005 at 23:57:41, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 06, 2005 at 21:06:12, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >> >>>On August 06, 2005 at 19:43:46, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On August 06, 2005 at 14:22:30, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 06, 2005 at 13:44:50, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 06, 2005 at 09:19:48, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 06, 2005 at 03:07:59, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 20:20:57, Arturo Ochoa wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 17:42:17, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 14:40:53, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 12:04:43, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 11:40:26, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 11:03:10, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 05, 2005 at 07:40:55, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 13:38:16, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 07:49:10, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On August 04, 2005 at 07:15:02, Engin Üstün wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>what is about the intelligence of the program? i mean the knowledge of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>program ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well the competition in that respect has been closed already, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as diep has more chessevaluation knowledge than any other program. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>That ought to be worth a "post of the year" award. "the competition is closed". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :) Just like the question "can a cluster be used to play chess?" The answer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>was (at first) "No, I can proof that the latencies are too high and the speedup >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>can't be > 1.0". It was later "yes, everyone else has tried and failed, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Diep can use a cluster now." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that gets _so_ old to continually read such crap. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Why is it that the program "with more chessevaluation knowledge than any other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>program" can't win a major tournament with the regularity of the inferior >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>programs like Shredder and Junior? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go figure... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Are you suggesting that Shredder has less evaluation knowledge than Crafty? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Go away. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>No >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob Hyatt never said that Crafty has more knowledge. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shredder has *way* more than you realize. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Junior9 has way way more knowledge than older versions. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The proof is obvious that chessknowledge works. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bob never said that chess knowledge does not work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>By the way, has your 2000 line evaluation function "enough to get world >>>>>>>>>>>>>champion" already finished? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>Vincent >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>No but I think that fruit's evaluation with better search and good book is >>>>>>>>>>>>enough to win the world championship. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>How many lines are in fruit2.1's evaluation? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Fruit eval.cpp has a less than 2000 lines >>>>>>>>>>>>There are functions like piece_attack_king not in eval.cpp but on the other >>>>>>>>>>>>side there are empty lines and asserts and comments in eval.cpp so I am not sure >>>>>>>>>>>>if Fruit's evaluation is more than 2000 lines. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>What happened to all your complaining in the 2004 world championship about >>>>>>>>>>>others having superior hardware (the reason you gave why Movei lost from Diep, >>>>>>>>>>>remember?). Fruit is single cpu. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I admit that Fruit is simply better than Movei. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>About the game against Diep the tactical mistake that costed the game is a >>>>>>>>>>mistake that movei could avoid with better hardware. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I am not sure what result Movei could do with better hardware against Diep but >>>>>>>>>>Diep could not win easily. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Crafty is quad opteron dual core, so is diep (quad opteron dual core 1.8Ghz >>>>>>>>>>>sponsor: www.hotels.nl ), shredder quad opteron dual core 2.2Ghz minimum >>>>>>>>>>>(transtec) and probably Junior (HP) be too. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Did you forget all your "superior hardware always wins" complaints in 2004? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Vincent >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I do not say that better hardware always win but I am almost sure that Movei >>>>>>>>>>could score better with better hardware(for example it had good chances for a >>>>>>>>>>draw against Crafty and in WBEC Movei beated Crafty in the match between them) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I also think that there are good chances that movei could avoid the loss against >>>>>>>>>>isichess with better hardware and the mistake that costed it the game could be >>>>>>>>>>prevented with searching one ply deeper. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Uri >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>There are two facts: Diep beated you in WCC2004 and Zappa beated you in CCT7 in >>>>>>>>>a easy way. The rest is mere cheap excuses typical from your Pre-WCCC frustrated >>>>>>>>>non participation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I only read this message. Not time to argue your nonsense for now. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Arturo. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>PD: I was the booker for this engines in those Tournaments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I responded to vincent and I did not talk about the game against zappa and I do >>>>>>>>not understand why you mention it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I also wrote nothing against you in my posts. >>>>>>>>It is a fact that Movei could avoid the losing mistake with searching one ply >>>>>>>>deeper against diep and that better hardware could help it to get one ply deeper >>>>>>>>in the relevant position(probably hardware that is 1.5 times faster was enough >>>>>>>>for it). >>>>>>>>It is not something personal against you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It is not a fact because It did not happen. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The fact is Movei made an awful mistake. Sooner or later it would make other >>>>>>>mistake like this, so the result was going to be the same thing. >>>>>> >>>>>>It is possible that you are right that later it could make another losing >>>>>>mistake and I do not know it. >>>>>> >>>>>>It is a fact that when I analyzed the game I found that movei could play a >>>>>>better move with searching one ply deeper because analyzing the game later is >>>>>>something that happened. >>>>>> >>>>>>Uri >>>>> >>>>>You probably didn't see it, but i didn't comment in the idiocy you wrote about >>>>>the Movei-Diep game. >>>>> >>>>>Any other move still loses you the game however. >>>>> >>>>>The fact is you just complained about hardware at the time. Now for the 2005 >>>>>world champ suddenly hardware is not relevant. >>>> >>>>I did not say that it is not relevant and I do not expect fruit to win the >>>>title. >>>> >>>>I said that it is better than Movei. >>>> >>> >>>A lot better. >>> >>>>> >>>>>You did not explain that weird logic. >>>>> >>>>>To explain it in a way a child understands: >>>>> >>>>>It is not logic to say in 2004 that bigger hardware would have solved everything >>>>>for you and that it was the only reason for you to lose, >>>> >>>>I did not say that it could solve everything for me but it could help me to get >>>>more points. >>>> >>>>Movei was never strong enough to win WCCC. >>> >>>Thank you. You give me again the reason about Movei making all kind of mistakes >>>later. >>> >>>> >>>>>whereas now you say Fruit makes a chance for world champion title despite >>>>>that it is at a single cpu and many others are 4 to 8 cores. >>>> >>>>I think that the probability of Fruit2.1 to win the title is small >>>> >>>>Shredder,Junior and Zappa that support more than one processor have better >>>>chances and Fruit is an easy target to prepare because Fruit2.1 is free and I >>>>understood that Fabien did not work on improving it before WCCC and he said that >>>>he took a break from chess programming after releasing Fruit2.1 so no big >>>>improvement from Fruit2.1 is expected in WCCC(big improvement from Fruit2.1 will >>>>probably happen only later). >>> >>>The probability compared to Movei is a lot big. >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>It is your turn to explain your logics. >>>>> >>>>>For the other readers, note that i would be happy if Fruit wins the world title; >>>>>it tends to get predictable if each year junior or shredder wins. >>>>> >>>>>Vincent >>>> >>>>Note that my guess was that zappa is going to win the title. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Why not the other participants? Based on what you supposed that? This is the >>>typical Blah-Blah supposition before WCC2005?!!! :))) >> >>I know that Zappa already won the CCT title and I know that zappa surprised in >>the past by almost winning CCT with a random book. >> >>I guess that you already did some preperations against specific opponents like >>you did against Pharaon in the past and I do not expect always Shredder and >>Junior to win the title. >> >>Uri > > >Correction: The Zappa Book for CCT was not _random_. I used the word random not for the zappa book that you were responsible for(last CCT) but about the book in a previous CCT when zappa shared first place with 7/9 and lost in the playoff(Crafty had superior hardware and won that CCT). If I remember correctly I read the word random directly from the author. Uri
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