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Subject: Re: Some details

Author: Mark Ryan

Date: 21:44:49 08/10/05

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On August 10, 2005 at 07:35:48, Bernhard Bauer wrote:

>On August 10, 2005 at 06:25:51, Joachim Rang wrote:
>
>>On August 10, 2005 at 04:32:53, Fabien Letouzey wrote:
>>
>>>On August 10, 2005 at 04:25:19, Joachim Rang wrote:
>>>
>>>>>[D]8/k7/3p4/p2P1p2/P2P1P2/8/8/K7 w
>>>
>>>>Intresting observation. Fruit 2.1 solves it on depth 26, the current
>>>>dev-versionon on depth 27. But both need more then 2 minutes on Pentium M 1.6
>>>>GHz. Toga 0.93 also needs some time but Toga 1.0 is quick. I don't know what
>>>>Thomas has changed though.
>>>
>>>Try older Fruit versions.  I remember it was easily solved when I tried last
>>>year.
>>>
>>>Hint: that's one of the reasons I know there are bugs in the search :)
>>>
>>>Fabien.
>>
>>I'm glad you admit that. Gian-Carlo wrote to me once, solving this position
>>quickly makes your program playing weaker. I'm not sure whether he is right or
>>not but at least it does not appear to be related to pruning, since even if I
>>disable all pruning it still needs depth 26.
>>
>>regards Joachim
>
>Here is output for Toga and Fruit
>
>FEN: 8/k7/3p4/p2P1p2/P2P1P2/8/8/K7 w - - 0 1
>
>TogaII:
>  22/24	00:00	      32.283	0	+0,72	Ka1b2 Ka7a8 Kb2c3 Ka8b7 Kc3d2
> 22/26	00:00	      43.164	0	+1,88	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 23/26	00:00	      49.247	0	+1,88	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 24/26	00:00	      56.905	0	+1,88	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 25/28	00:00	      67.192	0	+2,06	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 26/29	00:00	      79.497	0	+2,06	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 27/31	00:00	      97.124	0	+2,19	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 28/31	00:00	     122.579	0	+2,25	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 29/34	00:00	     162.994	0	+2,38	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 30/36	00:00	     199.238	0	+2,38	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 31/39	00:00	     283.718	0	+2,77	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 32/39	00:00	     356.413	0	+2,77	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 33/42	00:00	     466.703	0	+2,98	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 34/46	00:01	   1.073.473	0	+2,74	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 35/46	00:01	   1.197.285	0	+2,50	Ka1b1 Ka7b6 Kb1c2 Kb6b7 Kc2c3
> 36/51	00:02	   1.870.972	0	+2,50	Ka1b1 Ka7a8 Kb1b2 Ka8a7 Kb2b3
> 37/51	00:02	   2.042.866	0	+2,50	Ka1b1 Ka7a8 Kb1b2 Ka8a7 Kb2b3
> 38/51	00:02	   2.328.316	0	+2,74	Ka1b1 Ka7a8 Kb1b2 Ka8a7 Kb2b3
> 39/52	00:02	   2.766.927	0	+2,50	Ka1b1 Ka7a8 Kb1b2 Ka8a7 Kb2b3
> 40/53	00:03	   3.452.381	0	+2,50	Ka1b1 Ka7a8 Kb1b2 Ka8a7 Kb2b3
> 41/61	00:11	  11.713.755	1.072.000	+2,38	Ka1b1 Ka7a8 Kb1b2
>
>
>Fruit_21:
> 25/27	00:10	  20.872.780	2.070.579	+0,74	Ka1b2 Ka7a8 Kb2c3 Ka6b6
> 26/30	02:19	 290.433.750	2.089.065	+1,68	Ka1b1 Ka7b7 Kb1c1 g5xf5
>
>
>
>Yes, from the development of crafty I know that fact. Solving special positions
>may weaken a program.
>However my approach is that search should find it, even if it takes much time.
>
>Here is the famous Ortueta-Sanz position.

[D]8/pR4pk/1b6/2p5/N1p5/8/PP1r2PP/6K1 b

>Early crafty versions were very quick, but later crafty became as slow as other
>programs.
>Here some output from Toga2 and Fruit2.1 running on an Athlon 1800 MHz.
>
>FEN: 8/pR4pk/1b6/2p5/N1p5/8/PP1r2PP/6K1 b - - 0 1
>
>TogaII:
> 17/39	01:11	  65.338.841	914.507	+0,17	Bb6d8 h2h3 Bd8f6 a2a3 Rd2d1+
> 18/44	03:56	 211.396.468	893.727	+0,23	Bb6d8 Kg1f1 Bd8f6 h2h4 Bf6xh4
> 18/44	11:31	 598.718.363	866.060	+2,56	Rd2xb2 Rb7e7 Rb2xa2 Na4c3
> 19/44	12:06	 628.742.769	865.870	+2,57	Rd2xb2 Rb7e7 Rb2xa2 Na4c3
>
>FEN: 8/pR4pk/1b6/2p5/N1p5/8/PP1r2PP/6K1 b - - 0 1
>
>Fruit_21:
> 17/40	01:19	  77.388.137	978.504	+0,21	Bb6d8 Kg1f1 Bd8f6 h2h4 Bf6xh4
> 18/40	01:56	 112.110.579	968.533	+0,19	Bb6d8 Kg1f1 Bd8f6 h2h4 Bf6xh4
> 19/40	04:09	 226.676.837	911.296	+0,10	Bb6d8 Kg1f1 Bd8f6 Na4xc5
> 19/46	10:20	 568.957.864	916.772	+2,32	Rd2xb2 Rb7e7 Rb2xa2 Na4c3
> 20/46	12:36	 693.890.935	917.378	+2,57	Rd2xb2 Rb7e7 Rb2xa2 Na4c3
>
>
>
>Kind regards
>Bernhard



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