Author: Eelco de Groot
Date: 05:36:13 08/11/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 10, 2005 at 16:14:44, Darrel Briley wrote:
>On August 10, 2005 at 06:10:32, Eelco de Groot wrote:
>
>>On August 10, 2005 at 05:20:20, Darrel Briley wrote:
>>
>>>[D]r1b1kb1r/3n1p1p/1q3p2/4p3/1p1p4/3B1N2/PP2QPPP/R1BR2K1 w kq - 0 16
>>>
>>>From a game last night on ICC. Shredder 9 played 16. Bc4 as first move out of
>>>book. Looking at it after the game it seems 16. Nxd4 is a shot. Shredder took
>>>about seven and a half minutes to see it(AthlonXP 2600+ 512Mb hash). How long
>>>do other engines take?
>>>
>>>complete score...
>>>
>>>[TimeControl "2700+15"]
>>>
>>>1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 c6 5. e3 Nbd7 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 8.
>>>Bd3 a6 9. e4 c5 10. e5 cxd4 11. Nxb5 axb5 12. exf6 Qb6 13. O-O gxf6 14. Qe2
>>>b4 15. Rd1 e5 16. Bc4 Be7 17. Nh4 Ba6 18. Qf3 Ra7 19. Bxa6 Rxa6 20. Bh6 Bf8
>>>21. Bxf8 Nxf8 22. Rac1 Qb8 23. Rc6 Qa8 24. Qxf6 Qxc6 25. Qxe5+ Qe6 26. Qxh8
>>>f6 27. Nf3 Kf7 28. h4 Rd6 29. Re1 Qxa2 30. h5 Re6 31. Rd1 Re4 32. Rc1 Qxb2
>>>33. Rc5 Qb1+ 34. Kh2 Re8 35. Rc7+ Re7 36. Rc8 Re8 37. Rxe8 Kxe8 38. Qxf6 Qe4
>>>39. Nxd4 Nd7 40. Qd6 Qe5+ 41. Qxe5+ Nxe5 42. Nb3 Nd3 43. Kg3 Ke7 44. f4 Kd6
>>>45. Kf3 Kd5 46. g4 Ne1+ 47. Kg3 Nc2 48. f5 Nd4 49. Nxd4 Kxd4 50. f6 b3 51.
>>>f7 b2 52. f8=Q b1=Q 53. Kh4 Kd5 54. Qf7+ Ke5 55. Qc7+ Kf6 56. Qf4+ Kg7 57.
>>>h6+ Kg6 58. Qg5+ Kf7 59. Qf5+ Qxf5 60. gxf5 Kf6 61. Kg4 Ke7 62. Kg3 Kf6
>>>{Game drawn by mutual agreement}
>>>1/2-1/2
>>>
>>>Odd play at end due to missing semicolon separating TB paths
>>>
>>> DB
>>
>>15..e5 is clearly a big blunder. Pro Deo 1.1 Default needs little time to find
>>16.Nxd4, 36 seconds, but so does Shredder 9 UCI, 36 seconds on my Athlon 3200+,
>>100 Mb HT. Are you sure your set-up is right? 7 minutes to find it seems not
>>exactly right.
>>
>>Regards, Eelco
>>
>>
>>Pro Deo 1.1 default 200 Mb HT
>>
>>00:00:00.3 -0,82 4 9172 Bf4 Ba6 a4 bxa3ep bxa3
>>00:00:00.3 -0,78 4 10014 a4 bxa3ep bxa3 Bb4
>>00:00:00.3 -0,78 4 12037 Nd2 Bb7 a4 bxa3ep bxa3
>>00:00:00.3 -0,52 4 15457 Bf5 Be7 Qc4 Nc5
>>00:00:00.3 -0,58 5 40674 Bf5 Be7 Qc2 Nc5 Bxh7
>>00:00:00.3 -0,48 5 54165 Bb5 Qe6 Bc4 Qe7 Bd2
>>00:00:00.3 -0,39 5 68846 Bxh7 b3 Bb1 Ba6 Qe4
>>00:00:00.3 -0,66 6 95670 Bxh7 Nc5 Bd3 Nxd3 Rxd3 Ba6 Qe4
>>00:00:00.4 -0,57 6 134176 Bb5 Qe6 Bc4 Qe7 Bd2 Bb7
>>00:00:00.6 -0,64 7 348475 Bb5 Be7 Bh6 Ba6 Qe4 Rc8 Bg7
>>00:00:00.8 -0,51 7 514536 Bc4 Bc5 Qe4 Bb7 Qf5 Qd6 Bh6
>>00:00:00.9 -0,48 7 657466 Bd2 Qe6 Bc4 Qd6 Rac1 Bb7 Ne1
>>00:00:01.3 -0,57 8 972214 Bd2 Bb7 Bf5 Be7 Rdc1 Nc5 Qc4 Bxf3
>>00:00:02.2 -0,43 8 1883205 Bb5 Qe6 Bc4 Qe7 Qe4 Ra5 Bd2 Qd8
>>00:00:03.2 -0,54 9 3012178 Bb5 Qe6 Bc4 Qe7 Qe4 Ra7 Nd2 Bb7 Qg4
>>00:00:08.1 -0,49 10 8321477 Bb5 Be7 Bd2 Qd6 Qc4 Qe6 Qc7
>>00:00:12.8 -0,42 10 13427526 Bf5 Be7 Re1 Ba6 Qe4
>>00:00:29.0 -0,41 11 31854499 Bf5 Be7 Qe4 Ra5 Qg4 Bf8 Re1
>>00:00:35.8 -0,41 11 39706878 Nxd4
>>00:00:40.5 0,03 11 44668494 Nxd4 Qxd4 Be3 Qd5
>>00:01:35.2 0,71 12 103770043 Nxd4 Bb7 Nf5 Rg8
>
>Eelco,
>
>The results on my system are very strange, and I've as yet been unable to
>determine the problem. I deleted Shredder's PL2 file and reran the position.
>It still takes a very long time to find 16. Nxd4. It takes 3:46 to see the
>move, and much longer to see it as clearly winning.
>
>Shredder 9.1 UCI
>
> 9/30 0:01 +0.30 16.Bc4 Be7 17.Bh6 Bb7 18.Qd3 Ra5 19.Nd2 f5 (485.081) 397
> 10/24 0:01 +0.34 16.Bc4 Be7 17.Bh6 Bb7 18.Rac1 Rg8 19.Nh4 Nc5 20.f3 Ne6
>(714.366) 408
> 11/33 0:03 +0.56 16.Bc4 Bc5 17.Bh6 Bb7 18.Nh4 Ba6 19.Qe4 Rc8 20.Bg7 Bb7
>21.Qf5 (1.339.126) 417
> 12/33 0:04 +0.65 16.Bc4 Bc5 17.Bh6 Bb7 18.Nh4 Ba6 19.Nf5 Rg8 20.Ng7+ Ke7
>21.Rac1 Bxc4 22.Qxc4 Raf8 (2.033.143) 425
> 13/33 0:08 +0.71 16.Bc4 Bc5 17.Bh6 Ba6 18.Qe4 Ke7 19.Bd5 (3.766.578) 430
> 14/38 0:15 +0.69 16.Bc4 Bc5 17.Bh6 Ba6 18.Qe4 Bb7 19.Qf5 Rg8 20.Qxh7
>(6.592.341) 436
> 15/42 0:34 +0.63 16.Bc4 Bc5 17.Bh6 Ba6 18.Qe4 Ke7 19.Bd5 Rag8 20.Nh4 Ke8
>21.Nf5 Rg6 22.Rac1 Rhg8 23.g3 (15.240.429) 437
> 16/45 1:16 +0.71 16.Bc4 Bc5 17.Bh6 Rg8 18.Nh4 Nf8 19.Nf5 Rg6 20.Bb5+ Nd7
>21.Bd3 (33.610.501) 439
> 17/46 2:41 +0.46-- 16.Bc4 Bc5 (71.693.923) 443
> 17/46 2:55 +0.46 16.Bc4 Be7 17.Bh6 Bb7 18.Nh4 Rc8 19.Rdc1 Rg8 20.Qh5 Rxc4
>21.Rxc4 Qe6 22.Rac1 Qg4 (77.836.587) 444
> 17/48 3:46 +0.47++ 16.Nxd4 (100.340.432) 442
> 17/48 3:50 +0.82++ 16.Nxd4 (102.101.332) 442
> 17/48 9:47 +2.47 16.Nxd4 Ba6 17.Nf5 Nc5 18.Be3 Bxd3 19.Rxd3 Qe6 20.Bxc5 Qxf5
>21.Rf3 Qe6 22.Bxb4 Bxb4 23.Qb5+ (254.916.898) 433
>best move: Nf3xd4 time: 9:55.750 min n/s: 433.558 CPU 99.6% n/s(1CPU):
>435.299 nodes: 258.279.158
>(The original figure of seven and a half minutes was taken from Chesspartner
>after some backsolving)
>
>So I tried Pro Deo 1.1 in the Shredder Classic GUI as well, 100Mb hash:
>
>Pro Deo 1.1
> 8.00 0:01 -0.57 16.Bd2 Bb7 17.Bf5 Be7 18.Rdc1 Nc5 19.Qc4 Bxf3 (972.214) 972
> 8.03 0:02 -0.43 16.Bb5 Qe6 17.Bc4 Qe7 18.Qe4 Ra5 19.Bd2 Qd8 (1.883.187) 941
> 9.01 0:03 -0.54 16.Bb5 Qe6 17.Bc4 Qe7 18.Qe4 Ra7 19.Nd2 Bb7 20.Qg4
>(3.012.014) 1004
> 10.01 0:08 -0.49 16.Bb5 Be7 17.Bd2 Qd6 18.Qc4 Qe6 19.Qc7 (8.322.077) 1040
> 10.04 0:13 -0.42 16.Bf5 Be7 17.Re1 Ba6 18.Qe4 (13.423.966) 1032
> 11.01 0:30 -0.41 16.Bf5 Be7 17.Qe4 Ra5 18.Qg4 Bf8 19.Re1 (31.893.162) 1063
> 11.17 0:36 -0.41 16.Nxd4 (38.970.943) 1082
> 11.17 0:41 +0.03 16.Nxd4 Qxd4 17.Be3 Qd5 (44.108.249) 1075
> 12.01 1:41 +0.71 16.Nxd4 Bb7 17.Nf5 Rg8 18.Ng3 Rg7 (104.264.682) 1032
> 13.01 4:27 +0.95 16.Nxd4 Ba6 17.Nf5 Rg8 18.Bxa6 Qxa6 19.Qh5 Qc4 20.Ne3 Qe4
>21.Rxd7 Kxd7 22.Qxf7+ (276.038.016) 1033
> 14.01 7:57 +1.00 16.Nxd4 Ba6 17.Nf5 Qc6 18.Bxa6 Rxa6 19.Qh5 h6 20.Nxh6
>(498.860.017) 1045
>best move: Nf3xd4 time: 8:01.516 min n/s: 1.045.828 nodes: 498.860.017
>
>Here my numbers are very much the same as yours. Very odd.
>
>I've checked everything I can think of, but have found no cause of the very long
>solve time for Shredder 9 UCI. My system is very slightly overclocked (1917Mhz
>Barton core 11.5 x 166) running at 2070Mhz (11.5 x 180). but has been running
>completely stable at these settings for 2 years, nevertheless I even reduced bus
>speed, memory timings and core voltage to default, the only result being it
>takes even longer to find the move. Very odd. If anyone has any ideas please
>let me know.
>
> DB
>
>P.S. I've also tried it with various hash sizes, and also in the Chessbase GUI
>with the same result.
Hi Darrel,
That's a bit strange! But the Pro Deo results are nearly identical (I ran them
with 200 Mb HT) so it probably is not your computer!
The only thing I can think of is that I haven't upgraded Shredder 9 yet, I was
running version 9.02 that does not support Fischer Random Chess. I don't think
that endgame databases can make much of a difference here, I have the 5 men
EGTBs that come with the Gandalf 6.0 CD from Lokasoft. The clockspeed of my
Athlon is a little bit lower, 2009 MHZ according to Shredder Classic interface.
(I don't know if that is always a correct number, it had a wrong number for my
old Celeron 500 MHZ.) 2GHz is correct.
This is Shredder's logfile-output in Dutch:
Shredder 9.02 UCI by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen, www.shredderchess.com
CPU0: AuthenticAMD x86 Family 15 Model 31 Stepping 0 2009 MHz
GUI: Eindspeldatabanken met 5 stukken gevonden! [Buffer: 8 MB + intern 2.33 MB]
Engine: Shredder 9 UCI (100 MB)
gemaakt door Stefan Meyer-Kahlen
r1b1kb1r/3n1p1p/1q3p2/4p3/1p1p4/3B1N2/PP2QPPP/R1BR2K1 w kq -
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
8 |*T*|:::|*L*|:::|*K*|*L*| |*T*
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
7 |:::| |:::|*P*|:::|*p*|:::|*p*
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
6 | |*D*| |:::| |*p*| |:::
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
5 |:::| |:::| |*p*| |:::|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
4 | |*p*| |*p*| |:::| |:::
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
3 |:::| |:::| L |:::| P |:::|
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
2 | p | p | |:::| D | p | p | p
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
1 | T | | L | T |:::| | K |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
a b c d e f g h
Shredder 9 UCI
10/24 0:01 +0.34 16.Lc4 Le7 17.Lh6 Lb7 18.Tac1 Tg8 19.Ph4 Pc5 20.f3 Pe6
(676.516) 455
11/30 0:02 +0.55 16.Lc4 Lc5 17.Lh6 La6 18.De4 (1.286.217) 470
12/31 0:04 +0.66 16.Lc4 Lc5 17.Ld5 La6 18.De4 Tc8 19.Lh6 f5 (2.039.828) 478
13/34 0:08 +0.71 16.Lc4 Lc5 17.Lh6 La6 18.De4 Ke7 19.Ld5 Tag8 20.Ph4
(4.091.776) 482
14/36 0:13 +0.69 16.Lc4 Lc5 17.Lh6 La6 18.De4 Lb7 19.Df5 Tg8 20.Dxh7
(6.634.734) 486
15/42 0:27 +0.61 16.Lc4 Lc5 17.Lh6 La6 18.De4 Lb7 19.Df5 Tg8 20.Dxh7
(13.302.045) 483
15/42 0:35 +0.62++ 16.Pxd4 (17.246.270) 482
15/42 0:38 +0.97++ 16.Pxd4 (18.544.593) 483
15/42 0:56 +1.89 16.Pxd4 Dxd4 17.Le3 Dh4 18.Tac1 (26.949.918) 479
16/42 1:17 +1.92 16.Pxd4 Dxd4 17.Le3 Dd6 18.Lf5 Dc6 19.Tac1 Pc5 20.Lxc5 Lxf5
21.Lxf8 Db7 22.Ld6 Tg8 23.f3 Txa2 24.Tc4 Da6 (37.018.171) 480
17/44 1:52 +1.77 16.Pxd4 Dxd4 17.Le3 Dd6 18.Lf5 Dc6 19.Tac1 Pc5 20.Lxc5 Lxf5
21.Lxf8 Db7 22.Lc5 Tg8 23.f3 Lh3 24.g4 Txa2 25.Dd2 (54.122.542) 479
18/49 3:29 +2.02++ 16.Pxd4 Dxd4 (100.207.193) 478
18/49 11:27 +2.41 16.Pxd4 Lb7 17.Pf5 Tg8 18.Pg3 b3 19.Le3 Pc5 20.Lb5+ Lc6
21.Pe4 Tg6 22.Lxc6+ Dxc6 23.Lxc5 (293.821.250) 427
beste zet: Pf3xd4 tijd: 12:17.656 min n/s: 428.567 CPU 93.0% n/s(1CPU):
460.824 nodes: 316.122.323
Regards, Eelco
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