Author: Madhavan
Date: 18:09:18 08/11/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 11, 2005 at 20:57:09, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 11, 2005 at 14:37:56, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 11, 2005 at 14:00:24, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On August 11, 2005 at 13:57:36, Madhavan wrote: >>> >>>>On August 11, 2005 at 13:53:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 11, 2005 at 12:55:10, Thorsten Czub wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>1. Fruit >>>>>>2. Shredder >>>>>>3. Junior >>>>>>4. Crafty >>>>>>5. Zappa >>>>>>6. Diep >>>>>>7. Sjeng >>>>>>8. Jonny >>>>>>9. IsiChess >>>>>>10. My_fute >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>That will be a miracle. A single opteron CPU (single core) is 2x as fast as a >>>>>3.0ghz pentium. I, at least, will be running on 8 of 'em. That is a tough >>>>>disadvantage to overcome... >>>> >>>>Don't forget Fruit beta has got another 100 elo improvement. >>> >>> >>>Doesn't matter at all. a speed advantage of 16x is huge. Not insurmountable, >>>but _huge_ and very difficult to overcome. >> >>I guess that it does not gives more than 150-200 elo improvement because of >>diminishing return that means that being twice faster give only 40-50 elo >>improvement at long time control and not 70 elo. >> >>It seems that public fruit is about 150-200 elo better than public Crafty. >>I expect both WCCC fruit and WCCC Crafty to be better than the public version so >>it seems to me that fruit and Crafty have equal chances. >> >>Maybe Crafty has better chances because you could learn from Fruit's evaluation >>so you improved Crafty more than Fabien improved Fruit but only you can tell if >>looking at the source of fruit helped you to improve Crafty. > >That I can answer easily. I've not looked at the source of fruit. So there's >no way it could have helped. In fact, I haven't even seen a game fruit vs >crafty so I have no idea how the thing plays. > >My comment was solely about speed. a factor of 16 (over 3.0ghz) is 4 doublings, >each doubling is certainly worth something. Whether it will make Crafty >stronger than fruit, I won't speculate about since I have no idea how they >compare on equal hardware with reasonable opening book moves. But given two >programs that are within a hundred rating points of each other, I'd be >hard-pressed to not pick the one that is suddenly 12-16X faster... Does Hardware have more impact on longer games?How much time does your Program on your hardware take to make decision 1r1q1rk1/p1p2ppp/2pbpn2/3p4/1P1P4/P1N1P3/2PB1PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - b3 0 12 for the above FEN? Or would you say Crafty would get into 15 or 17 plies too rapidly[in less than 10 seconds] on complicated position with the hardware you are going to use? Fruit can get 13 plies in that position even on that FEN I'm using P4 2.6GHZ here.It doesn't make a big difference as Fruit's eval is much different to Crafty's >That was my only point. I don't know that I'll win a single game. But I do >know that it is going to be hell to beat the thing. I've seen 15 ply searches >in 5 3 games on ICC in the middlegame. I saw 16-17 ply middlegame searches >against Junior in the next-to-last CCT which Crafty won on a quad cpu box. This >one is 2x faster... > >> >> >>> >>>Also I don't believe the +100 elo stuff anyway, otherwise all the programs would >>>be rated 3600 and up by now... >> >>I also do not believe the +100 elo stuff for fruit in this version but the stuff >>is only about fruit so I do not see how you get your conclusion about other >>programs. > >Simple. Every year, every new version, "the new version is 60-80-100 elo >stronger than last year's version." Seen that over and over and over. :) Why do not you do that? :) isn't doing that "simple" for you?or you never touch the code,just hook the program to the server everyday?I guess,Fabien who uses internet rarely improves his program quicker altough he admits being "lazy" I suspect always hoooking crafty to the server gave you less time to handle the code. > >> >>The +100 elo stuff was correct for Fruit in the past and it is a fact that fruit >>improved faster than other programs >> >>Fruit2.0 was already above Crafty level on one cpu and Fruit2.1 is slightly more >>than 100 elo better than fruit2.0 based on the CEGT rating list. >> >>Uri
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