Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:02:18 08/11/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 11, 2005 at 21:09:18, Madhavan wrote: >On August 11, 2005 at 20:57:09, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On August 11, 2005 at 14:37:56, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On August 11, 2005 at 14:00:24, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On August 11, 2005 at 13:57:36, Madhavan wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 11, 2005 at 13:53:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 11, 2005 at 12:55:10, Thorsten Czub wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>1. Fruit >>>>>>>2. Shredder >>>>>>>3. Junior >>>>>>>4. Crafty >>>>>>>5. Zappa >>>>>>>6. Diep >>>>>>>7. Sjeng >>>>>>>8. Jonny >>>>>>>9. IsiChess >>>>>>>10. My_fute >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>That will be a miracle. A single opteron CPU (single core) is 2x as fast as a >>>>>>3.0ghz pentium. I, at least, will be running on 8 of 'em. That is a tough >>>>>>disadvantage to overcome... >>>>> >>>>>Don't forget Fruit beta has got another 100 elo improvement. >>>> >>>> >>>>Doesn't matter at all. a speed advantage of 16x is huge. Not insurmountable, >>>>but _huge_ and very difficult to overcome. >>> >>>I guess that it does not gives more than 150-200 elo improvement because of >>>diminishing return that means that being twice faster give only 40-50 elo >>>improvement at long time control and not 70 elo. >>> >>>It seems that public fruit is about 150-200 elo better than public Crafty. >>>I expect both WCCC fruit and WCCC Crafty to be better than the public version so >>>it seems to me that fruit and Crafty have equal chances. >>> >>>Maybe Crafty has better chances because you could learn from Fruit's evaluation >>>so you improved Crafty more than Fabien improved Fruit but only you can tell if >>>looking at the source of fruit helped you to improve Crafty. >> >>That I can answer easily. I've not looked at the source of fruit. So there's >>no way it could have helped. In fact, I haven't even seen a game fruit vs >>crafty so I have no idea how the thing plays. >> >>My comment was solely about speed. a factor of 16 (over 3.0ghz) is 4 doublings, >>each doubling is certainly worth something. Whether it will make Crafty >>stronger than fruit, I won't speculate about since I have no idea how they >>compare on equal hardware with reasonable opening book moves. But given two >>programs that are within a hundred rating points of each other, I'd be >>hard-pressed to not pick the one that is suddenly 12-16X faster... > >Does Hardware have more impact on longer games?How much time does your Program >on your hardware take to make decision > >1r1q1rk1/p1p2ppp/2pbpn2/3p4/1P1P4/P1N1P3/2PB1PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - b3 0 12 > >for the above FEN? > >Or would you say Crafty would get into 15 or 17 plies too rapidly[in less than >10 seconds] on complicated position with the hardware you are going to use? > >Fruit can get 13 plies in that position even on that FEN >I'm using P4 2.6GHZ here.It doesn't make a big difference as Fruit's eval is >much different to Crafty's > I'll run it and post the results in a little while. Crafty is playing on ICC right now... after this game is over, I'll see what this position produces and post the output... >>That was my only point. I don't know that I'll win a single game. But I do >>know that it is going to be hell to beat the thing. I've seen 15 ply searches >>in 5 3 games on ICC in the middlegame. I saw 16-17 ply middlegame searches >>against Junior in the next-to-last CCT which Crafty won on a quad cpu box. This >>one is 2x faster... >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Also I don't believe the +100 elo stuff anyway, otherwise all the programs would >>>>be rated 3600 and up by now... >>> >>>I also do not believe the +100 elo stuff for fruit in this version but the stuff >>>is only about fruit so I do not see how you get your conclusion about other >>>programs. >> >>Simple. Every year, every new version, "the new version is 60-80-100 elo >>stronger than last year's version." Seen that over and over and over. :) > >Why do not you do that? :) >isn't doing that "simple" for you?or you never touch the code,just hook the >program to the server everyday?I guess,Fabien who uses internet rarely improves >his program quicker altough he admits being "lazy" > >I suspect always hoooking crafty to the server gave you less time to handle the >code. >> Why? I don't have to do a thing. I have an automated script that keeps it logged on. Takes no activity on my part, other than to look over games after they are played to see if I see anything that needs attention. Best way to have robust code is to exercise it extensively. A few thousand games in a month will highlight any bugs... >>> >>>The +100 elo stuff was correct for Fruit in the past and it is a fact that fruit >>>improved faster than other programs >>> >>>Fruit2.0 was already above Crafty level on one cpu and Fruit2.1 is slightly more >>>than 100 elo better than fruit2.0 based on the CEGT rating list. >>> >>>Uri
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