Author: Uri Blass
Date: 08:59:50 08/12/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 12, 2005 at 11:39:35, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On August 12, 2005 at 01:59:30, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 11, 2005 at 20:57:09, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On August 11, 2005 at 14:37:56, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On August 11, 2005 at 14:00:24, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 11, 2005 at 13:57:36, Madhavan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 11, 2005 at 13:53:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 11, 2005 at 12:55:10, Thorsten Czub wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>1. Fruit >>>>>>>>2. Shredder >>>>>>>>3. Junior >>>>>>>>4. Crafty >>>>>>>>5. Zappa >>>>>>>>6. Diep >>>>>>>>7. Sjeng >>>>>>>>8. Jonny >>>>>>>>9. IsiChess >>>>>>>>10. My_fute >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That will be a miracle. A single opteron CPU (single core) is 2x as fast as a >>>>>>>3.0ghz pentium. I, at least, will be running on 8 of 'em. That is a tough >>>>>>>disadvantage to overcome... >>>>>> >>>>>>Don't forget Fruit beta has got another 100 elo improvement. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Doesn't matter at all. a speed advantage of 16x is huge. Not insurmountable, >>>>>but _huge_ and very difficult to overcome. >>>> >>>>I guess that it does not gives more than 150-200 elo improvement because of >>>>diminishing return that means that being twice faster give only 40-50 elo >>>>improvement at long time control and not 70 elo. >>>> >>>>It seems that public fruit is about 150-200 elo better than public Crafty. >>>>I expect both WCCC fruit and WCCC Crafty to be better than the public version so >>>>it seems to me that fruit and Crafty have equal chances. >>>> >>>>Maybe Crafty has better chances because you could learn from Fruit's evaluation >>>>so you improved Crafty more than Fabien improved Fruit but only you can tell if >>>>looking at the source of fruit helped you to improve Crafty. >>> >>>That I can answer easily. I've not looked at the source of fruit. So there's >>>no way it could have helped. In fact, I haven't even seen a game fruit vs >>>crafty so I have no idea how the thing plays. >> >>I think that it is better if you look at the code because it probably can help >>you to find better ideas to improve crafty. >> >><snipped> >>>Simple. Every year, every new version, "the new version is 60-80-100 elo >>>stronger than last year's version." Seen that over and over and over. :) >> >>For fruit it is correct so far and there is more than one version per year. >>Note that I do not expect fruit of today to be 100 elo better than Fruit2.1 >>because 2 months is too early for 100 elo improvement but I certainly expect 100 >>elo improvement in fruit to happen in less than a year because Fabien is better >>programmer than the programmers of the commercial programs(I also expect part of >>the commercial to improve faster thanks to learning from fruit). >> >>Fruit2.1 is from 17.6.2005 >>Fruit2.0 is from 24.12.2004 >>Fruit1.5 is from 17.06.2004 >>Fruit1.0 is from 17.03.2004 >> >>Based on different lists I find more than 100 elo difference between Fruit2.1 >>and Fruit2.0 and I remember similiar improvement with older versions of Fruit. >> >>You can say that it was not hard to improve old versions before Fruit2.0 but >>Fruit2.0 is already better than the public version of Crafty on one cpu and >>Fruit still has search bugs that fabien did not fix. >> >>Here are 2 rating lists when both fruit2.1 and fruit2.0 have more than 1000 >>games: >> >>http://www.miko42.de/turniere/blitzturniere/blitzrangliste.html >> >>Fruit2.1 2712 >>Fruit2.0 2608 >> >>http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rangliste.html >> >>Fruit2.1 2713 >>Fruit2.0 2607 >> >>Uri > > >That's all well and good, but also a different topic. Almost _any_ engine >progresses by leaps and bounds the first year or two or three, assuming it was a >"start from scratch" project. But once it incorporates most of the known ideas, >progress starts to slow down... of course I expect fruit to slow down after enough progress but I Know that public fruit has weaknesses in the search(for example it does not use partial extensions and also cannot solve fast fine70(the pawn endgame when Kb1 is the winning move)). I also know that fabien plans to fix the weaknesses(at least for fine70) and this is one of the reasons that I still expect big improvement for fruit in the near future. Uri
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.