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Subject: Re: What if fruit does win the title.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:37:50 08/13/05

Go up one level in this thread


On August 13, 2005 at 16:21:07, Arturo Ochoa wrote:

>On August 13, 2005 at 15:19:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 13, 2005 at 13:08:38, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>
>>>On August 13, 2005 at 10:41:07, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 13, 2005 at 09:00:55, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 12, 2005 at 16:15:37, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 12, 2005 at 05:46:42, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On August 07, 2005 at 00:12:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On August 06, 2005 at 21:27:32, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On August 06, 2005 at 20:15:07, gerold daniels wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Would it have much of an impact on the commercial Programs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Gerold.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don´t think it will have a strong impact for the Comercial Programs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>However, your question is too too wide and any answer is a mere speculation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Ok, my answers (speculations)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>1) Fruit could become comercial.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>2) It would be a great surprise because it would be the first free chess program
>>>>>>>>>with open source in winning a Title.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Oops.  :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This Oops means you asphyxiated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Cray Blitz won several, and it was always "open source" as well.  :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The chess 4.x guys distributed their source thru the CDC user's group as well...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Was Cray Blitz and Chess 4.X Amateur Engines? As far as I know, Chess 4.X was
>>>>>>>the strongest engine in the 70s but was it considered an Ameteur? The same
>>>>>>>question goes for Cray Blitz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>By any standard used by the ICCA/ICGA, yes.  Just as Crafty is amateur today.
>>>>>>And both programs were public source as well as several others, dating back to
>>>>>>say COKO in the first ACM computer chess event in 1970, to mention just one...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you consider crafty an amateur program today, then CB has to be the same.  I
>>>>>>was the author.  Was working at a university during the development, was at UAB
>>>>>>for the last 10 years of CB's playing years (1985-1994)...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not sure how else it could be considered anything but amateur based on the
>>>>>>current ICGA definition of "amateur, semi-professional and professional" (all of
>>>>>>which are a complte crock in my opinion, but that is another subject..)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For me, Fruit would be the first engine in reaching an Official WCCC Tournament.
>>>>>>>Does it hurt your pride?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No pride involved.  Just facts.  But claiming that (if fruit were to win) that
>>>>>>it is the first public-source amateur program to win the WCCC would simply be
>>>>>>dead wrong.  Chess 4.x in 1977, CB in 1983/1986 were all open source and amateur
>>>>>>by today's definition.
>>>>>
>>>>>I did not claimed. You, guys of this Forum, have a problem accusing people of
>>>>>claiming things
>>>>
>>>>No, here _you_ have a problem.  Here is a direct quote from the post by you that
>>>>I responded to:
>>>>
>>>>"2) It would be a great surprise because it would be the first free chess
>>>>program with open source in winning a Title."
>>>>
>>>>I simply pointed out that was _wrong_.  Both Cray Blitz and chess 4.x were open
>>>>source and both won WCCC events, chess 4.x won one, Cray Blitz won 2.
>>>>
>>>>So how am I "accusing you of claiming things" when I simply responded to a
>>>>_direct_ statement that you made that was wrong...  And I did it in a
>>>>non-hostile manner as well, just pointing out that you had overlooked two
>>>>examples of open source programs from the 70's, 80's and 90's...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I said: "However, your question is too too wide and any answer is a mere
>>>>>speculation. Ok, my answers (speculations)". I did not claimed. I entered in the
>>>>>terrain of the speculations.....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So?  Your speculation was wrong, and it contained an erroneous statement since
>>>>it directly implied that no public source program had ever won a WCCC-type event
>>>>in the past.
>>>
>>>A speculation is not wrong. It is a mere speculation. I am not claiming
>>>anything. This is one of the problems of this Forum. No, I am being evaluated by
>>>the "Big Father" of the CCC. My God.
>>>
>>>I have not implied anything. This is a speculation  to answer a question of
>>>somebody. Then your pride is blooded because I misse a point. Your followers in
>>>this Forum will stand your way, not me.
>>
>>
>>This is a tad ridiculous.  You want to hide behind "speculation".  That's
>>ridiculous.  Speculating about whether Fruit will win or not isn't the issue,
>>and you can speculate about that all you want.  But if it wins, it is _not_
>>speculation that it would be the first open-source program to win.  Because that
>>has _already_ happened, and therefore can not be speculated about today.
>
>No. It is just ridiculous how you overeact. I hope this doesnt happen with your
>students. If you read the post
>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?440555, other person wrote the
>initial question.
>
>I answered a question. I did not hide anything. My favorite engine is not Fruit
>neither your Crafty. I answered this question missing "your information about
>world champions open source in the eighties" I would like to know if they were
>already  available for everybody before those Tournaments (although I doubt it)

The answer is yes.  Although I don't see what that has to do with it.  Since the
version of Fruit competing is _not_ publicly available yet, neither is the
current version of Crafty, although it will be right after the WCCC ends.

your point would be???

>
>
>>
>>Again, the issue is that there is _no_ way _any_ program could become the first
>>open-source program to win a WCCC.  Why?  Because it happened in 1977, 1983 and
>>1986 _already_.
>>
>>So how can one speculate about something that could not possibly be true under
>>any possible set of circumstances???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I did not claimed. I only said a mere speculation if you can undertand. Your
>>>>>information was interesting for me but your opps,,, apsss,,,,,, remove your
>>>>>serious sense of the information. That is.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, you pretend create a long thread from a speculation. My god.
>>>>
>>>>You have a serious problem.  All you needed to say was "I didn't know that" and
>>>>move on.  To make it simple, you were wrong on that count.  I pointed out the
>>>>mistake.  If you can't take someone pointing out a simple mistake, in a polite
>>>>way, then you have problems beyond not knowing your computer chess history...
>>>
>>>
>>>You also have a serious problem Hyatt. You overeacted with a sarcarsm. If you
>>>are a teacher, I dont know how your students can stand such sarcasms when they
>>>don´t know or miss something.
>>
>>
>>There was _zero_ sarcasm in my post.  Feel free to attempt to point it out.  Or
>>feel free to "speculate" where the sarcasm was.
>>
>>"oops" means "a mistake".  I then explained your mistake.  End of story.  The
>>rest of this is just rhetoric and crap.
>>
>>I don't believe you could recognize sarcasm if it fell and hit you on the head.
>>Because there was _none_ in my initial post...
>
>Of course, I can believe. "oops" is understood here like "the poor guy slid". In
>Venezuela, it is offensive. If you are used to doing that, well..., it is not
>advisable to do that here.

It's not offensive over here, nor anywhere else I have ever visited.  Just means
"I goofed" or "I made a mistake" or "I erred" or whatever...




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