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Subject: Re: Symmetry Position Question

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:33:00 08/14/05

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On August 14, 2005 at 14:57:50, Brian Richardson wrote:

>Just wondering if others see this behavior or not.
>
>In the position below, Tinker prefers Qc7 after a bit.
>
>[D]5rk/3b2p/1q1p1p1p/2p1p/1pP1P1P/1P1PQP/r2N2KR/7R/ b  0 1
>
>However, in the "flipped" position (horizontally around a rank axis)
>it does not like Qc2 (I think the flip is correct)
>
>[D]7r/R2n2kr/1p1pqp/1Pp1p1p/2P1P/1Q1P1P1P/3B2P/5RK/ w  0 1
>
>When I ran this test with Crafty, and flipping, the moves are also a bit
>different, as are the scores for each full ply.
>
>So, I'm wondering if this is an asymmetrical evaluation problem, or search
>instability, or no big deal.
>
>Thanks


Here's the thing for crafty.

It is 100% symmetrical if you just flip the board along either axis.  I test
this all the time.  But if you do a search, it might not be, because my move
generator generates moves in a specific order, and if you flip the board, the
move order will change (think about FirstOne() applied to a bitboard that is
rotated, you get a different first or last bit set, etc...

a 1-ply search should be perfect unless there are two moves with the same score,
and flipping the board causes the generator to produce a different order for the
two moves in questio...

My "rule of thumb" is _everything_ is a big deal, until properly explained...



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