Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 18:41:22 08/15/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 15, 2005 at 21:21:46, Mark Young wrote: >On August 15, 2005 at 20:54:51, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On August 15, 2005 at 19:35:25, Mark Young wrote: >> >>>On August 15, 2005 at 16:55:58, Thomas Mayer wrote: >>> >>>>On August 15, 2005 at 16:41:40, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 15, 2005 at 16:21:31, Theo van der Storm wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>C:\DOSEXE\PGN.EXE -d -x wccc13.pgn >>>>>> # Name 1 2 3 4 P BU SB G >>>>>> 1 Crafty 3b= 4b1 10w1 9b1 3.5 8.0 6.50 4 >>>>>> 2 Zappa 9w1 6b1 5w1 11b= 3.5 6.0 5.75 4 >>>>>> 3 Shredder 1w= 10b1 9w1 6b= 3.0 7.5 4.75 4 >>>>>> 4 Deep Junior 11b1 1w0 7b1 10w1 3.0 7.0 3.50 4 >>>>>> 5 Fruit 7b1 8w1 2b0 12w= 2.5 7.5 3.75 4 >>>>>> 6 Deep Sjeng 8b= 2w0 12b1 3w= 2.0 8.5 2.75 4 >>>>>> 7 Jonny 5w0 11b1 4w0 8w1 2.0 7.5 2.00 4 >>>>>> 8 The Baron 6w= 5b0 11w1 7b0 1.5 7.0 1.50 4 >>>>>> 9 The Crazy Bishop 2b0 12w1 3b0 1w0 1.0 10.5 0.50 4 >>>>>> 10 Diep 12b1 3w0 1b0 4b0 1.0 10.0 0.50 4 >>>>>> 11 Fute_MT 4w0 7w0 8b0 2w= 0.5 10.0 1.75 4 >>>>>> 12 IsiChess MMX 10w0 9b0 6w0 5b= 0.5 6.5 1.25 4 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> # Name 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 P BU SB >>>>>> 1 Crafty X . ½ 1 . . . . 1 1 . . 3.5 8.0 6.50 >>>>>> 2 Zappa . X . . 1 1 . . 1 . ½ . 3.5 6.0 5.75 >>>>>> 3 Shredder ½ . X . . ½ . . 1 1 . . 3.0 7.5 4.75 >>>>>> 4 Deep Junior 0 . . X . . 1 . . 1 1 . 3.0 7.0 3.50 >>>>>> 5 Fruit . 0 . . X . 1 1 . . . ½ 2.5 7.5 3.75 >>>>>> 6 Deep Sjeng . 0 ½ . . X . ½ . . . 1 2.0 8.5 2.75 >>>>>> 7 Jonny . . . 0 0 . X 1 . . 1 . 2.0 7.5 2.00 >>>>>> 8 The Baron . . . . 0 ½ 0 X . . 1 . 1.5 7.0 1.50 >>>>>> 9 The Crazy Bishop 0 0 0 . . . . . X . . 1 1.0 10.5 0.50 >>>>>> 10 Diep 0 . 0 0 . . . . . X . 1 1.0 10.0 0.50 >>>>>> 11 Fute_MT . ½ . 0 . . 0 0 . . X . 0.5 10.0 1.75 >>>>>> 12 IsiChess MMX . . . . ½ 0 . . 0 0 . X 0.5 6.5 1.25 >>>>> >>>>>Is there a hardware listing somewhere yet? >>>>> >>>>>I am guessing that Fruit is the only one in the top six that is running on a >>>>>single CPU. >>>>> >>>>>Against Crafty (for instance) there is about 6-7x speed difference (as a rough >>>>>estimate). I am curious about the other hardware. >>>> >>>>Hi Dann, >>>> >>>>all I know currently is, that Diep & Crafty play on 8-way boxes, Shredder, >>>>Junior & Zappa on 4-way, Deep Sjeng on Dual an the rest on single... For Jonny >>>>it should be Athlon 64 with 2.6 GHz internally, Fruit is 2.4 GHz... >>>>I think Gerd has his own Athlon 64 with him which is afaik 2.2 GHz -> The rest >>>>is probably P4 3.0 GHz >>>> >>>>Greets, Thomas >>> >>>Crafty has really shown me some very good chess in this tournament. Crafty has >>>shown some holes in its play before. I don't see them so far in this tournament. >>>This has to be more then just 8 cpu's and 16 million nodes a sec helping >>>Crafty's play. For this to happen Crafty must has also stepped up a notch on the >>>programming side. Speed is great, but speed can't always fix holes in a programs >>>play. As shown by Diep for example who also plays on a 8 way. Bob looks like a >>>big threat for any program in this touranment, and it is no fluke that Crafty is >>>in first place. Bob has to be considered a favorite to win this tournament. I >>>would not have said that 2 days ago. >> >> >>I still wouldn't say it myself. :) > >You may not want to say it, but you see what I see...I bet. :) It is not easy to >bring everything together when playing in WCCC. You may have done it this year. >All the best Bob. Good Luck. There are a couple of issues at least. Yes, the thing is very fast, which tends to mean that everyone else is searching a perfect sub-tree of what crafty is searching. That is a serious problem for them. If you ever play against someone with much faster hardware, you'll see this effect. You play the best move you can find, yet your eval continually drops. This simply means you are getting out-searched. TCB played well today, it just got out-searched pretty badly. The other issue is the "luck factor". A good program can have bad luck and lose against anybody in Iceland. A bad program can have a bit of luck in a single game, and be capable of beating anyone playing there. I just have to hope that I'm not the recipient of that bad luck. Also, there are some very strong opponents left. Anthony's program (zappa) is certainly highly dangerous. Don't know much about Fruit, but from all the comments here, it is highly capable of winning games. It is going to have its hands full against Crafty's search speed, but I can clearly remember both Cray Blitz and Deep Thought losing a game here and there against _far_ slower programs that also had less chess knowledge. In the shredder game, Crafty played well. It pushed hard and pushed into a position where it had an eval of almost -2.0, which means it was simply out-searching shredder for the most part (ignoring shredder's selective search stuff of course). It then was a little optimistic in its evaluation with the opponent's two connected passers, something I had seen a couple of times in test games against shredder on ICC. Was afraid to try to fix that so close to the tournament, because changes to the eval can have effects far beyond just the things being looked at. The deep junior game saw DJ self-destruct with the BN for RP sacrifice. No idea what caused that, other than probably king-safety turned up too high to reward aggressive play. But you don't want to go overboard on aggressive play if your opponent is likely out-searching you due to superior hardware. The Diep game I have not looked at in any detail as I missed it this morning due to an early meeting. No idea what happened there. The TCB game looked pretty drawish after Crafty entered a way deep tactical plan that ended up winning the exchange, losing two pawns, but getting a serious bind on white in the process. The bind turned out to be a strangle-hold that could not be broken. This was a game where Crafty's eval climbed or remained steady each and every move, never dropping at all, another indication of overwhelming search speed rather than chess skill. What will happen next is anybody's guess. I've never been one to make predictions about myself, it is easy to look stupid (I won't name names for someone that likes to make stupid predictions, but you know the example) and it is just as easy to say "we'll know by Sunday who wins this thing..." Every good round for Crafty increases the probability it will win the event. But there are 7 rounds left. Even though shredder and junior games are done, there are enough potholes left to blow a tire easily. Tomorrow is Deep Sjeng I believe. Another strong program, that is easily capable of handing Crafty its first "0" in a round. Sooner or later Zappa steps up as well, and it is also dangerous. There are a few left I _should_ beat, but should != will, so the games have to be played. And an opponent can find a brilliant move for the wrong reason, or Crafty can play a horrible move for the wrong reason, or anything in between. So we still have a tournament to watch. :)
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