Author: Eelco de Groot
Date: 13:43:46 08/18/05
Go up one level in this thread
On August 18, 2005 at 13:08:11, Eelco de Groot wrote:
>On August 18, 2005 at 09:48:19, Peter Berger wrote:
>
>>On August 18, 2005 at 09:01:51, Majd Al-Ansari wrote:
>>
>>>I was watching the game on playchess and looks like Fruit won the game. Very
>>>impressive game considering Crafty was using 8 processors and Fruit only 1
>>>processor. But I have to admit I think that Crafty was caught by poor book
>>>opening.
>>
>>I am not sure I completely agree with this assessment, at least not when put
>>this way.
>>
>>The potentially controversial move is 11. ... g5 I suppose. I don't think this
>>move is that bad at all, objectively. Let's move a little further: 12. Qd2 h6
>>13. Qc3 Qf6 14. Kh1 . Here Crafty played 14. ...Bb7?, that is clearly a bad
>>idea. The king has to stay in the centre or castle queenside if necessary, the
>>bishop belongs to d7 or e6 and then the rooks both belong to the kingside to
>>attack white's king.
>>
>>After 14. ...Bb7 white has an edge, but black is not lost. After 15. f4 gxf4 16.
>>Bxf4 the next critical point is reached. Here a possible move is 16...Rg8 e.g. -
>>nothing to brag about, but black is still well alive. Instead 16. ..O-O ?? is
>>just suicide.
>>
>>So yes - this line should never have been in Crafty's book, because it could not
>>deal with it. I am to blame for that, so maybe 0.6 points were lost because of
>>that - bad enough !! The rest is Crafty's fault, that just castled into it.
>>
>>Congrats to Fruit - nice game!
>>
>>Peter
>
>Hello Peter,
>
>One processor against eight, I think it is amazing that Fruit won! You only
>mention this in the thread below, but it seems to me that the losing move may
>have been 12..h6, not 11..g5. Not that Pro Deo 1.1 Vulcan seems not really at
>home in this position, probably a sign that 11..g5 is not such a good opening
>move for computers to play, not even with eight processors? Or maybe this Vulcan
>version that I used is not very well tuned.. Moves and scores keep changing here
>even after longer analysis times. The computer thinks 11..0-0 is beter than
>11..g5, but only by a difference from 0.00 to -0.45 But after 12..h6 the score
>for White is quickly +1.00. Maybe because pawn g7-g5 is more meant as an anti
>f2-f4 maneuver, not to be defended by h7-h6? 12..Rg8 is preferred here. But the
>move f2-f4 that keeps coming up in several lines, maybe is not a move that Fruit
>would have liked to play.
>
> A Pro Deo 1.1 Vulcan version after 12..h6:
>
> [D]r1bqk2r/p1p2p2/1bpp3p/4n1p1/N3P3/7P/PPPQBPP1/R1B2RK1 w kq -
>
> 00:00:00 1.00 0.42 13.Nxb6 axb6
> 00:00:00 2.00 0.48 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.b3
> 00:00:00 3.00 0.38 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.b3 c5 15.Bb5
> 00:00:00 4.00 0.43 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qe3 Be6 15.b3
> 00:00:00 4.09 0.44 13.b3 Qf6 14.Bb2 Nxb6 15.Bf5 Nxa8 16.Bxh3
> 00:00:00 5.00 0.50 13.b3 g4 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Rd1 Qf6
> 00:00:00 6.00 0.48 13.b3 g4 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Bb2 gxh3 16.hxg2 Kxg2
> 17.Bd7 Qg5
> 00:00:00 6.29 0.48 13.Qc3 Be6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4
> 00:00:00 7.00 0.70 13.Qc3 Qe7 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Be3 Ba6 16.Bxa6
> 00:00:00 8.00 0.70 13.Qc3 Qe7 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Be3 Ba6 16.Bxa6
> 00:00:00 9.00 0.77 13.Qc3 Qe7 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4
> Bd7 17.Bc4 f6
> 00:00:01 10.00 0.85 13.Qc3 Qe7 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4
> Bd7 17.Bc4 Rh7 18.Rad1 Nxc4 19.Qxc4
> 00:00:03 11.00 0.85 13.Qc3 Qe7 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4
> Bd7 17.Bc4 Rh7 18.Rad1 Nxc4 19.Qxc4
> 00:00:12 12.00 1.00 13.Qc3 Qe7 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4
> Bb7 17.a4 Rh7 18.Qe3 Qh4 19.b3
> 00:00:32 13.00 1.00 13.Qc3 Qe7 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4
> Bb7 17.a4 Rh7 18.a5 Bc8
> 00:01:45 14.00 1.00 13.Qc3 Qf6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4
> Ra7 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxc6 Bd7 19.Qd5 Rh7 20.Qxe5
> dxe5 21.Rf6 Ra4
> 00:04:23 15.00 1.03 13.Qc3 Qf6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4
> 00:09:33 16.00 1.02 13.Qc3 Qf6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4
> 00:26:28 17.00 1.00 13.Qc3 Qf6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4
After 12.Qd2
[D]r1bqk2r/p1p2p1p/1bpp4/4n1p1/N3P3/7P/PPPQBPP1/R1B2RK1 b kq -
00:00:00 1.00 -1.55 12..O-O 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qxg5 Ng6
00:00:00 1.01 -1.40 12..Bb7 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qxg5
00:00:00 1.07 -0.95 12..Be6 13.Qxg5
00:00:00 1.19 -0.25 12..g4
00:00:00 1.20 -0.07 12..h6
00:00:00 2.00 -0.33 12..h6 13.Nxb6 axb6
00:00:00 2.01 -0.32 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6
00:00:00 3.00 -0.43 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Rd1
00:00:00 3.01 -0.41 12..h6 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Rd1
00:00:00 4.00 -0.30 12..h6 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.f4 gxf4 15.Qxf4
00:00:00 5.00 -0.34 12..h6 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Rd1 Qf6 15.Bh5
00:00:00 6.00 -0.34 12..h6 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.f4 gxf4 15.Qxf4 Be6
16.Qf6 Qxf6
00:00:00 6.01 -0.26 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Be6 15.a4 Qf6
00:00:00 7.00 -0.38 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qe3 c5 15.Bd2 d5 16.Bc3
00:00:00 8.00 -0.38 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Ra4 15.f4 gxf4
16.Bxf4 Rxe4 17.Bxe5 Rxe2
00:00:01 9.00 -0.35 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qe3 g4 15.Qg3 Rg6
16.Bf4 gxh3 17.Rad1
00:00:06 10.00 -0.38 12..Rg8 13.Qc3 Qf6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Bd2 Be6
16.a4 d5 17.f3 Rd8 18.f4 gxf4
00:00:13 11.00 -0.36 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Qf6 15.Bd2 Be6
16.f3 d5 17.exd5 Bxd5
00:00:37 12.00 -0.39 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Qf6 15.Be3 b5
16.f3 Bd7 17.a3 c5 18.Rad1
00:01:50 13.00 -0.57 12..Rg8 13.Qc3 Bd7 14.Qg3 Qe7
00:04:40 14.00 -0.44 12..Rg8 13.Qc3 Qf6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.f4 gxf4
16.Bxf4 Bd7 17.g3
00:10:30 15.00 -0.44 12..Rg8 13.Qc3 g4 14.hxg4 Bxg4
00:27:01 16.00 -0.45 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 g4 15.hxg4
01:21:33 17.00 -0.45 12..Rg8 13.Nxb6
After 12.Qd2 Rg8, the eval stays about the same:
r1bqk1r1/p1p2p1p/1bpp4/4n1p1/N3P3/7P/PPPQBPP1/R1B2RK1 w q -
00:00:00 1.00 0.38 13.Nxb6 axb6
00:00:00 2.00 0.48 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Rd1
00:00:00 3.00 0.35 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.b3 d5
00:00:00 4.00 0.41 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Rd1 Qf6 15.Qd4
00:00:00 5.00 0.32 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Be6 15.a4 Qf6
00:00:00 6.00 0.43 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qe3 c5 15.Bd2 d5 16.Bc3
00:00:00 7.00 0.25 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qe3 g4 15.Qg3 Ba6 16.Bxa6 Rxa6
00:00:00 7.03 0.41 13.Qc3 g4 14.Qg3 Rg6 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.h4
00:00:00 8.00 0.38 13.Qc3 Qf6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Bd2 Be6 16.a4 d5
17.f4 gxf4
00:00:01 8.01 0.40 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 g4 15.Qg3 Be6 16.f4 Bc4
17.Bxc4 Nxc4 18.Rd1 Qe7
00:00:01 9.00 0.38 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Qf6 15.Bd2 Be6 16.a4 d5
17.f4 gxf4 18.Bxf4 Bxe5
00:00:07 10.00 0.25 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.f3 Qf6 15.Qc3 Qh6 16.Rf2 c5
17.f4 gxf4 18.Bxf4 Qe6 19.Bxe5
00:00:22 11.00 0.45 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Qf6 15.Bd2 Be6 16.b4 g4
17.Rac1 Rxa2 18.Be1
00:00:40 12.00 0.41 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Qf6 15.Be3 c5 16.Bb5 Bd7
17.Bxd7 Kxd7 18.f3 Kc8
00:02:25 13.00 0.51 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 Ra4 15.f3 Be6 16.Be3 b5
00:05:42 14.00 0.36 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Qc3 g4 15.hxg4 Bxg4 16.Bxg4
Rxg4 17.f4 Qh4 18.fxe5
00:26:07 15.00 0.40 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.f3 Ng6 15.Qc3
>
>After 14.Kh1:
>
> [D]r1b1k2r/p1p2p2/1bpp1q1p/4n1p1/N3P3/2Q4P/PPP1BPP1/R1B2R1K b kq -
>
> 00:00:00 1.00 -0.02 14..O-O
> 00:00:00 1.01 0.00 14..Bb7
> 00:00:00 1.03 1.03 14..Bxf2
> 00:00:00 2.00 0.58 14..Bxf2 15.Be3
> 00:00:00 3.00 -1.54 14..Bxf2 15.Be3 Bxh3 16.gxh3 Bxf2 17.Nd3 Qxf6
> 00:00:00 3.01 -0.55 14..Bb7 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.Be3 Qb3
> 00:00:00 3.03 -0.17 14..Be6 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.b3 h4 17.gxh4 a3
> 00:00:00 3.25 -0.14 14..d5 15.Nxb6 cxb6 16.exd5 cxd5
> 00:00:00 4.00 -0.64 14..d5 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.exd5 c5 17.Bb5
> 00:00:00 4.01 -0.40 14..Be6 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.f4 gxf4 17.Bxf4 Bxe5
> 18.Qxe5 Qxc6 19.Ke7
> 00:00:00 4.06 -0.14 14..Qg6 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.Qd4 Be6 17.Bxa2
> 00:00:00 5.00 -0.17 14..Qg6 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.Qd4 f5 17.f3
> 00:00:00 6.00 -0.23 14..Qg6 15.b3 Be6 16.Nxb6 axb6 17.Qe3
> 00:00:00 7.00 -0.13 14..Qg6 15.f3 Qh5 16.Nxb6 axb6 17.Kg1 Ba6
> 18.Bxa6 Rxa6
> 00:00:00 8.00 -0.13 14..Qg6 15.f3 Qh5 16.Nxb6 axb6 17.Kg1 Ba6
> 18.Bxa6 Rxa6
> 00:00:01 9.00 -0.11 14..Qg6 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.f4 gxf4 17.Bxf4 Ra5
> 18.Bxe5 dxe5 19.Qd3 O-O
> 00:00:01 9.04 -0.09 14..g4 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.hxg4 Rg8 17.g5 hxg5
> 18.Kg1
> 00:00:03 10.00 -0.17 14..g4 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.hxg4 Rg8 17.Qg3 Be6
> 18.f3 Nc4
> 00:00:04 10.01 -0.13 14..Qg6 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.Be3 g4 17.hxg4 Bxg4
> 18.Bxg4 Qxg4
> 00:00:10 11.00 -0.12 14..Qg6 15.f3 Qh5 16.Qa3 Ba5 17.b4 Bb6 18.Nxb6
> cxb6 19.Kg1 Qh4
> 00:00:26 12.00 -0.30 14..Qg6 15.f3 Qh5 16.Nxb6 axb6 17.Kg1 Bd7
> 18.Be3 c5 19.Bc4 Qh4
> 00:00:37 12.01 -0.27 14..g4 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.hxg4 Ra4 17.f3 d5 18.g3
> dxe4
> 00:01:22 13.00 -0.58 14..g4 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.f4 gxf3 17.Rxf3 Qg6
> 18.Bf4 Ra5
> 00:06:08 14.00 -0.92 14..g4 15.f4 gxf3 16.Rxf3 Qg7 17.Bf4 Bd7 18.Rd1
> f6
> 00:08:48 14.04 -0.85 14..Rb8 15.f4 gxf4 16.Bxf4 Rg8 17.g4 Qg7 18.Rad1
> Be6 19.Bxe5 Qxe5 20.Qxc6 Bd7 21.Qc4 d5
> 00:13:11 14.15 -0.68 14..Rg8 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.f4 gxf4 17.Bxf4 Qg7
> 18.g4 Bd7 19.Bxe5 Qxe5 20.Qxe5 dxe5 21.Bc4
> 00:15:23 15.00 -0.89 14..Rg8 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.f4 gxf4 17.Bxf4 Qg7
> 18.Rf2 Ra7 19.Bxe5
> 00:22:25 15.04 -0.77 14..g4 15.Nxb6 cxb6 16.f4 gxh3 17.gxh3 Qh4
> 18.Kh2 Ng6 19.Rg1 O-O
Then back to 14..Rg8:
00:50:22 16.00 -0.89 14..g4 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.f4 gxf3 17.Rxf3
00:54:06 16.01 -0.69 14..Rg8 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.f4
01:10:44 17.00 -0.69 14..Rg8 15.Nxb6 axb6 16.f4 gxf4 17.Bxf4
>
> Pro Deo 1.1 Vulcan after 16.Bxf4 also plays 16..0-0, still after 16 minutes.
>But 21.Bxh6! is crushing of course
>
>
> [D]r3k2r/pbp2p2/1bpp1q1p/4n3/N3PB2/2Q4P/PPP1B1P1/R4R1K b kq -
>
> 00:00:00 1.00 -0.36 16..O-O
> 00:00:00 1.01 -0.25 16..O-O-O
> 00:00:00 1.14 -0.02 16..Qe6
> 00:00:00 1.23 0.30 16..Qg7
> 00:00:00 2.00 -0.39 16..Qg7 17.Nxb6 axb6
> 00:00:00 3.00 -0.86 16..Qg7 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5
> 00:00:00 3.10 -0.54 16..Rg8 17.Nxb6 axb6 18.g3
> 00:00:00 4.00 -1.18 16..Rg8 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5 19.Rad1
> 00:00:00 4.01 -0.86 16..Qg7 17.Bxe5 dxe5 18.Nxb6 axb6 19.Qd3
> 00:00:00 5.00 -1.27 16..Qg7 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5 19.Rad1
> Rg8
> 00:00:00 5.01 -0.91 16..Rg8 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5 19.Rad1
> Bd4
> 00:00:00 6.00 -1.34 16..Rg8 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5 19.Bc4 O-O-O
> 20.Rxf7
> 00:00:00 6.01 -1.21 16..Qg7 17.Bxe5 dxe5 18.Bc4 O-O 19.Nxb6 axb6
> 20.Rad1
> 00:00:00 6.06 -1.08 16..Rh7 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5 19.Rad1
> Rg7 20.Bc4 Bd4
> 00:00:00 6.21 -1.07 16..Nd7 17.Qxf6 Nxf6 18.Nxb6 axb6 19.Bxd6
> cxd6 20.Rxf6 Ke7
> 00:00:00 7.00 -1.07 16..Nd7 17.Qxf6 Nxf6 18.Nxb6 axb6 19.Bxd6
> cxd6 20.Rxf6 Ke7
> 00:00:01 8.00 -1.07 16..Nd7 17.Qxf6 Nxf6 18.Nxb6 axb6 19.Bxd6
> cxd6 20.Rxf6 Ke7
> 00:00:02 9.00 -1.18 16..Nd7 17.Qxf6 Nxf6 18.Bxd6 Nxe4 19.Be5 Rf8
> 20.Nxb6 axb6 21.Bxc7
> 00:00:03 9.05 -1.14 16..Rg8 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5 19.Bc4 Rg7
> 20.Rf5 O-O-O 21.Bxf7
> 00:00:06 10.00 -1.14 16..Rg8 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5 19.Bc4 Rg7
> 20.Nxb6 axb6 21.Rf6 c5 22.Bb5 c6 23.g4
> 00:00:23 11.00 -1.35 16..Rg8 17.Bxe5 Qxe5 18.Qxe5 dxe5 19.Bc4 Rg7
> 20.Rf5 O-O-O 21.Bxf7 Rd6 22.Nxb6
> 00:00:30 11.01 -1.34 16..O-O 17.Rad1 c5 18.Rd3 Qg7 19.Rg3 Ng6 20.Qe3
> 00:01:09 12.00 -1.13 16..O-O 17.Qg3 Qg6 18.Qh4 Qxe4 19.Nc3 Qg6
> 20.Bxh6 c5 21.Qg5 Rfe8 22.Rad1 Qxg5
> 00:02:01 13.00 -1.34 16..O-O 17.Rf3 c5 18.Rg3 Kh7 19.Rf1 Bc6 20.b3
> 00:03:54 13.05 -1.23 16..Rh7 17.Bc4 Rg7 18.Bxe5 Qxe5
> 00:05:50 14.00 -1.39 16..Rh7 17.Bg3 Qg7 18.Rad1 Nd7 19.Nxb6 axb6
> 00:08:13 14.01 -1.20 16..O-O 17.Qg3 Qg7 18.Qh4 Kh7
> 00:16:12 15.00 -1.27 16..O-O 17.Rf3 Qg7 18.Bxe5
>
> Eelco
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